Japan Honda Kumatarou and his documents for 1st and 2nd class Sacred Treasure Order

[JapanX]

In different times this man was foreign Minister, President of Manchurian Railways, Ambassador in Germany and China (Nanking).

His final post - War Criminal.

He died shortly after getting his pardon in 1948.

His name was Honda Kumatarou

[JapanX]

Unfortunately these interesting documents were sold before I could say one, two ...

Good thing I kept the photos

2nd class without Taisho signature (quite unbelievable, but this happens in this time period - looks like Taisho was too sick for signing the documents)

This one was issued on November 1, 1920

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

1st class bears so called "double signature".

Unfortunately it is diffused opinion that this is really two different emperor`s signatures!

Another naive popular belief ...

It is simply Hirohito signature + Hirohito trying to mimic his father signature

It was issued on May 10, 1926

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[pieter1012]

Hi Nick,

very interesting and scarce documents.

Both during the reign of emperors Meiji and Taisho sometimes order documents were issued without the emperor's signature when the emperor was too ill to take care of State matters. The documents do mention (contrary to those who don't have the emperor's signature anyway) "under my sign manual and affixed with the seal of State". I have in my collection two Rising Sun 2d class documents, issued by emperor Meiji, but without his signature. Unfortunately, I have not yet such document issued under emperor Taisho, although he was many times very ill before crown prince Hirohito became officially the Prince-Regent.

When Prince Hirohito became Regent it was formally decided that he would sign all official documents with his father's name as well as his own, as his emperor Taisho was officially still the sovereign and all documents were issued under his name. During this Regency period, Prince Hirohito signed 866 award documents under emperor Taisho's and his own name. Of the Sacred Treasure 1st class as shown by you, a total of 60 were issued. These are only the numbers of documents awarded to Japanese. I have no numbers for those awarded to foreigners during the Regency.

I must have missed this offer out (on which site did you see it?), so I didn't even have the chance to count to three, I certainly would have liked them in my collection.

Pieter

Edited September 14, 2012 by pieter1012

[JapanX]

I have in my collection two Rising Sun 2d class documents, issued by emperor Meiji, but without his signature.

These are quasi rare!

Late 00s? Early 10s?

When Prince Hirohito became Regent it was formally decided that he would sign all official documents with his father's name as well as his own, as his emperor Taisho was officially still the sovereign and all documents were issued under his name. During this Regency period, Prince Hirohito signed 866 award documents under emperor Taisho's and his own name. Of the Sacred Treasure 1st class as shown by you, a total of 60 were issued. These are only the numbers of documents awarded to Japanese. I have no numbers for those awarded to foreigners during the Regency.

Cool info Pieter!

I must have missed this offer out (on which site did you see it?), so I didn't even have the chance to count to three ...

It was a very (well not really as I realized a little bit later ) private offer ...

...I certainly would have liked them in my collection.

Who wouldn't?!

Now try to imagine how I was pissed off when these slipped through my fingers!

Regards,

Nick

Edited September 14, 2012 by JapanX

[pieter1012]

Hi Nick,

I made a mistake, actually one document I have is the first class of the Rising Sun, awarded on 24 August 1911 to Ambassador Kato Takaaki, and the second class Rising Sun, awarded 13th June 1911 to Major-general Akashi Motojiro. Most documents without emperor Meiji's signature because of sickness were issued between 1904 and his death in 1912. A total of 2339 "blank" documents were issued during this period, the most being for the Golden Kite 5th class (1639). For the Rising Sun first class 14, and second class 38.This figure is also only for japanese.

Pieter

Edited September 14, 2012 by pieter1012

[JapanX]

For the Rising Sun first class 14, and second class 38.

Hi Pieter,

as I said - quasi rare

I wonder what cavaliers felt when they got these "under my sign manual and affixed with the seal of State" docs

without actual "sign manual" ...

Regards,

Nick