JapanX Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Check this out guys! What would be your time assessment for this specimen? End of WWII? Or 1952-1956?
Dieter3 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Medal - I'd guess mid-WWII to late 40s. Case - 1956+ I'm suspicious that the medal and case do not belong together. This medal looks like many of those found in the wooden cases - lower quality enamel, and alloyed silver, or silver plate on top of another base metal, as well as the much simplified central elements of the obverse (no separation of features - they are all "connected"). It does appear to have a gold-plated appearance, but I think this is just the photograph making it look this way. The photo is dark so I can't see it completely, but the rosette appears to be that of a silver order, not a gold one. Also, the indentation of the suspension knob in the upper lid liner is inconsistent with the suspension knob on the shown medal, indicating that this is not the original medal to this case. Or I'm over-analyizing and completely wrong. Edited April 11, 2013 by Dieter3
JapanX Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 What happened with "after the war life was hard" theory? The order fits very well to this "time pattern", don't you think? By the way, the usual quality of pieces that we found in balsa (wooden cases) is a little bit higher (and I am not sure that they all came from 30s and WWII time period - actually I think many of them (if not all) might belong to the after WWII period)
Dieter3 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 What happened with "after the war life was hard" theory? The order fits very well to this "time pattern", don't you think? By the way, the usual quality of pieces that we found in balsa (wooden cases) is a little bit higher (and I am not sure that they all came from 30s and WWII time period - actually I think many of them (if not all) might belong to the after WWII period) Well, yeah! Life was definitely hard in the years after the war, but not forever! And during the war of course. But Rich has documented in one of his eNewsletters that (I believe it was 1942) - that medals were to change their composition. When they changed back? Not sure. These are very hard to document, especially given that there are almost ZERO medals with their award documents available!! I'm actually quite surprised at this given that these medals (merit medals in general) are terribly common. Actually, the quality of medals found in the wooden cases varies - from good quality, to exactly that of the medals you show, in fact - by those I've collected and observed - more of the lower quality pieces show up in the wooden cases. Again, not all - but far more lower quality pieces than the higher quality ones. If anything, the wooden cased ones might date as early as the LATE 30's, early 40's (higher quality pieces) - and then the lower quality pieces started showing up in wooden cases as well. It is also possible that the wooden cases extended into the 50's and eventually saw the return of higher quality medals and fell out of use pre-1956 before the merit medal became the silver and the gold separate medals. But at the end of the day, I simply do not know - what came first - the low quality medal, or the wooden case? If I had to make a guess - I'd say the wooden case, but it is pure speculation without documentation!
JapanX Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 Well, yeah! Life was definitely hard in the years after the war, but not forever! And during the war of course. But Rich has documented in one of his eNewsletters that (I believe it was 1942) - that medals were to change their composition. When they changed back? I believe that their composition was changed on August 12, 1941 from silver to silvered bronze. As for the time of "change back" - no info There is a VERY high probability that balsa boxes belong to the post war period (after 1956). Remember that Golden Special Member medals have the same balsa boxes as orders ;)
Dieter3 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 I believe that their composition was changed on August 12, 1941 from silver to silvered bronze. As for the time of "change back" - no info There is a VERY high probability that balsa boxes belong to the post war period (after 1956). Remember that Golden Special Member medals have the same balsa boxes as orders Yes, it could be the 1941 date, I don't have the newsletters available at the moment! But - given that these altered composition medals are found plentifully in wood cases, these wood cases would seem to date to that period, don't you think? ANd then their use continued on until......??? Yes, Gold Specials do have wooden cases - but let's not forget - so do silver special membership medals! And these are in distinct flavors - clearly earlier awards in cases with paper liners (like the merit medals), and rosettes that do NOT use the safety pin attachment - then the later medals - the gold special membership and silver special membership - in wooden cases without paper inserts, AND the rosettes use the safety pin attachment. And the kanji style on the silver and gold special member cases is the same style, and bright gold. There are clear differences between these cases sans the paper insert and the ones with the paper insert - that I contend are earlier cases/medals, and similar to the cases of the orders. I don't think the wooden cases have a high probability at all of being post-1956! I could be wrong, but it seems pretty clear that the distinction between silver and gold was important, and the cases were marked accordingly. I won't say that some of them could not be from the 50's, but I just doubt it given what we can observe with the lower quality medals, and other medals we know to be pre-war, war-era, and post-war.
JapanX Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Yes, it could be the 1941 date, I don't have the newsletters available at the moment! Everlasting doubts about my info ... Again? And you are dating orders and boxes by rosettes and paper liners ... Again ;) Edited April 11, 2013 by JapanX
Dieter3 Posted April 11, 2013 Posted April 11, 2013 Everlasting doubts about my info ... Again? And you are dating orders and boxes by rosettes and paper liners ... Again No. No. But certain trends, traits, and manufacturing characteristics can definitely be used for placing things into an era or time frame, don't you think?
JapanX Posted April 11, 2013 Author Posted April 11, 2013 Well, you know me I don't like this approach ... I am sure that you remember how well this "two different styles of kanji on the boxes lids - two different epochs" approach for dating order boxes worked out ... Anyway, it is [1941- around 1956] period of time we are talking about :beer:
JapanX Posted April 13, 2013 Author Posted April 13, 2013 Ok. Second round What would be your time assessment for this specimen?
JapanX Posted April 14, 2013 Author Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) :beer: Edited April 14, 2013 by JapanX
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