...and another IOD89 dedicated sword

[Wessel]

This is a Bavarian-style, one-ring scabbard sword by Horster, without the ususal blade motto, but with a lovely gold/black inscription:

'Fur Erinnerung an den 3. Offizier Aspiranten-Kursus

Juni-Juli 1915'

On the obverse langet is thae date '1915' and either 'RS' or 'SR'

The reverse langet bears the incription:

O.A.A.K

Lockstedter

Lager

Around the guard are inscribed 4 names:

Ltn.Preising

Ltn. Menkhaus

Ltn. Koppe

Ltn. Dr. Meyer

Lockstedter is in Schleswig and was one of the main training camps, and I would love to know more about these 4 friends. Also, to what does the RS or SR refer as none of the aforementioned has a family name with that second letter.

Any help much appreciated.

[Wessel]

...

[Guest Rick Research]

VERY VERY interesting!!!! *(Either scans are getting better or my eye is getting used to them! )

I'd say the recipient's initials were R(first) S(last) since the S is much the thicker and more emphasized. I can't imagine a Bavarian up there for training... is that a Bavarian Portepße, though? Their usual "swivel" above the knot--is it blue inside the bottom of the knot?

The donors should be easy enough with that specific attribuution. Start your clock. (You ARE on Double Summer Time, right? )

[Guest Rick Research]

Hm. Per Militär-Wochenblatt of 14 August 1915 these were among a HUGE pile of officer candidates commissioned as Leutnant der Reserve to date 7 August 1915.

PREISING-- in Inf Rgt 98 (home control Landwehrbezirk Recklinghausen)

MEYER... since there is nothing apparently unit-common among these men, MIGHT have been HANS (LWB Berlin) also in Inf Rgt 98... or any other Meyer in that calss.

KÖPPE from LWB Magdeburg, commissioned in Reserve Inf Rgt 217.

These three survived the war (though can't say that is the correct Meyer)

but of a "Menkhaus" I find nothing similar--please check again.

And Herr ".S." outfoxed himself for posterity--there are HUNDREDS commissioned on the same day, could be ANY "S" since as usual Germaans only used first names for equally ranked officers in the same regiment.

There is no unit in common here... just particular clas buddies out of hundreds.

So far.

That LIONHEAD indicates cavalry, artillery, or train. Most of the officers were in infantry units....

Edited July 30, 2013 by Rick Research

[arb]

Georg Menkhaus, born 06.06.1893 in Iburg (Osnabruck), entered the Bavarian army as a recruit on 07.11.1914. There are numerous entries for him on ancestry. He too was infantry. It seems he survived the war.

Andy

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, there's why HE doesn't show up in the MWB! What was his commission date as a K.B. Lt dR? Because if we can match HIM up to the two identifiable Prussians (and what were BAVARIAN OAs doing in Lockstedt??? ) then that is SOME clue to the mysterious yes-Bavarian-pattern-sword for artillery/cavalry/train "R.S."

I never HEARD of Bavarians training up there, in some sort of "all Germany" officer training.

Find an "RS" with same commission date as Menkhaus, in one of the four potential arms....

[Wessel]

Great research! Much obliged.

I did wonder at the 'O.A.A.K.' on the langet...I presumed it was partly 'Offizier Aspiranten A...? Kursus'. Could the additional 'A' stand for Artillery, if these individuals were there on such a specific course even though they are Infantry guys???

[Guest Rick Research]

That would have to be Offizier-Aspiranten Ausbildungs Kurs. I just never heard of "mixed kingdoms" at this level--or there!-before.

Still, my sword representative on the Traveling Museum says that is indeed a Bavarian pattern sword--and the blade etching certainly implies there were enough of them actually there to make sales worthwhile. (He says the names etc are amateur scratchings--as if done by one of the 5 himself with a nail or something!). I goofed yesterday about four branches being potential wearers--already forgot foot artillery had SILVER lions (see "Bielke" sword thread).

I went through the April 1916 Bavarian Rank List for reserve lieutenants named "R.S." and could only come up with FOUR--1 field artillery, 1 cavalry, and--being really really thorough--2 in infantry--tghough lionhead should NOT be that arm. Drawback to this is there are no DATES for commissions for reserve officers there... and there is always the possibility that "R.S." was already dead by then, so more rooting around is needed.

But no question this is a fascinatingly "weird" sword and much of the story remains to be told.

Here are my Four Suspects (while I'm out today):

Lt dR Richard Spitzeg of K.B. Feldart Rgt 7

Lt dR Richard Starck of K.B. Chevleg Rgt 2

and ???? lions ????

Lt dR Rudolf Schmitt of K.B. Inf Rgt 10, and

Lt dR Rudolf Sturm of K.B. Inf Rgt 12

Zero other matches alive and Lt dR in April 1916--with no further research done on any of them

[Wessel]

Many thanks!

[Trevor]

I have just joined and was looking for info on a sword that has connections (1915) from the Lockstedter Lager camp - it has a blue grey blade engraving ( In memory of the Officer Training Course) and the names of 5 officers - made by EF Horster. I have put a post on the Imperial Uniform forum.  - I believe the one referred to here as to be the one now in my possession.! Can anyone help !?