NCOs - a rank insignia study (and ribbon bar help needed)

[IrishGunner]

I decided to post this post card with the stempel of Feld-Artillerie Batterie 848 separately because it seems like a good study of NCO rank insignias...

We have here:

5 Unteroffizier (collar lace, no collar button)

5 Vizefeldwebel (collar lace, collar button)

2 Feldwebel - or Wachtmeister in artillery terms (collar lace, collar button, one lace stripe on sleeve)

1 Etatmässige Feldwebel - or Der Spiess (collar lace, collar button, two lace stripes on sleeve)

And one that I am not sure of... top row, third from right; he has two vertical stripes on collar - another way of showing Unteroffizier?

[IrishGunner]

We also have at least 8 EK2s...

The Feldwebels on the left of the photo also have a second unidentified ribbon in their button holes.

Now the Vizefeldwebel to the left of Der Spiess has an unusual ribbon. At first, I thought it was another EK2, but close up look shows a ribbon device in the center. Wonder what that is?

Edited September 28, 2013 by IrishGunner

[Glenn J]

Rick,

that is not entirely correct: This is the insignia used.

Unteroffizier (collar lace, no collar button, one lace stripe on sleeve)

Sergeant (collar lace, collar button, one lace stripe on sleeve)

Vizefeldwebel - or Vizewachtmeister in artillery terms (collar lace, collar button, one lace stripe on sleeve)

Etatmässige Feldwebel - or der Spiess (collar lace, collar button, two lace stripes on sleeve)

On the 1915 pattern Bluse, the cuff stripes were often not used.

Your guy with the "vertical stripes", I believe is just wearing an "abbreviated" amount of normal braid but just on the leading edge of his collar.

The difference between the Sergeant and the Vizewachtmeister would have been in the officer pattern cockades and Portepee worn by the latter.

Regards

Glenn

[IrishGunner]

Glenn, so we really don't know the exact rank of these guys with or without sleeve lace; they could be either sergeants or vizewachtmeisters...

[Glenn J]

Indeed, without a really clear close up shot of the cockades, it really is impossible to differentiate between the two.

Regards

Glenn

[IrishGunner]

Glenn, thanks very much for the info. I've been turning that over in my head and thought this photo would help make some sense of the senior NCO ranks.

But isn't a Feldwebel in the same category then as Vizefeldwebel and Sergeant? Collar lace, collar button, one sleeve stripe?

And I always missed that Unteroffizier had a sleeve stripe also; I guess the M15 Bluse aspect is why it's not there in the other photos I have...

Edited September 28, 2013 by IrishGunner

[Glenn J]

Rick,

I think you are inserting in an extra rank. The Etatsmäßige Feldwebel and Feldwebel are one and the same. Excluding the Fähnrich and the other specialists, there were just four ranks:

NCOs without the officers' swordknot (ohne Portepee)

Unteroffizier

Sergeant

NCOs with the officers' swordknot (mit Portepee)

Vizefeldwebel/Vizewachtmeister

Feldwebel/Wachtmeister

Regards

Glenn

[IrishGunner]

Glenn, you are right; a website I've been using appears to make a difference between Etatsmäßige Feldwebel and Feldwebel as separate ranks. I just pulled out my "German Army Handbook, April 1918" and now see what you are saying. Thanks for setting me straight... Hopefully, this thread will help others.

Now anyone have a shot at that "different" ribbon bar?

[IrishGunner]

I forgot I had this little book called "Leitfaden für die Kanoniere und Fahrer der Feldartillerie" - Guide for the Cannoniers and Drivers of the Field Artillery; 1915 edition. If you can read German script, it gives an excellent run down of the NCO ranks as described by Glenn above. And there's a color plate for the dunkelblau.

Does this exist for the other branches... Infantry? I wonder if there are later editions which would cover feldgrau.