History_Geek Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 This Golden Kite 5th Class award document is dated Meiji 39 (1906). I thought this class of the Golden Kite would have the document be signed by the Emperor during this year. Why would this document not be signed? I was wondering if anyone had an idea. The picture on ebay is not very good. Thanks for thoughts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Order-of-Golden-Kite-5-class-Document-1939-in-kiri-box-/181246441799 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 What's up History Geek? Yep. This one was issued on April 1, 1906 (standard date R-J war awards) . Text reads "under Our sign manual and affixed with the seal of State". We see this "seal of State", but where is our beloved Emperor manual signature?! Nobody knows for sure what happened on this day, but some docs where left unsigned by Meiji. Bureaucratic error? Emperor was too tied? Who knows ... Anyway in toto 1639 documents for 5th class golden kite weren't signed by Emperor Meiji on this day Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieter1012 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hi History Greek, to elaborate further on Nick's comments, according to my Japanese sources, during the reign of Emperor Meiji a total of 10,039 5th class Golden Kites were awarded, of which 1639 documents were not signed by the Emperor. Presumably most, if not all, of these 5th class unsigned documents were for the Russo-japanese war, considering that during the 1894 Sino-Japanese war only 2000 Golden Kites in total were awarded and for the 1900 Boxer rebellion in total only 200 Golden Kites. Needless to say that the latter documents are very hard to find. Actually, I have never seen one in any class. Nick, if you have a picture of one, could you post it? To complete the picture, from the Meiji period all 1st and 2d class Golden kite documents were signed by the Emperor, five 3d class and 49 fourth class were unsigned. Best regards, Pieter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Nick, if you have a picture of one, could you post it? Sure thing. Will do it (hopefully) tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Here we go Pieter (borrowed photos of this 4th class from a friend - thanks Stas! ) This one was issued on October 18, 1895 to Major Hayasi Taitiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieter1012 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Hi Nick, first of all, thanks for the pictures. Actually, I was referring to a picture of a Golden Kite document for the 1900 Boxer rebellion of which in all classes only 200 were issued. They shoulod be dated either Meiji 34 or 35. The 1894 Golden Kite I fortunately have already in my collection, one of which is also a fourth class GK awarded to Akashi Motojiro, known for his spy actions in the Russo=Japanese war. Regards, Pieter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Sorry, I misunderstand you. I don`t have Boxer kite in my collection, but I will look through my scanotec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History_Geek Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 I appreciate the pictures and information from the both of you. You guys have such a wealth of knowledge, it blows me away. I consider myself an "advancing" and knowledgeable collector of documents who has a lot to learn from experts like yourselves. I look forward to reading and seeing more from the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) I was referring to a picture of a Golden Kite document for the 1900 Boxer rebellion Here it is dear Pieter Document for 5th class Golden Kite for Boxer Rebellion Edited November 20, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieter1012 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Hi Nick, thanks for the pictures, I saw this one on Yahoo Jp too and have (through an acquaintance in Japan) successfully bid on it. However, I am almost sure this is not a Boxer rebellion award, but an early Russo-Japanese war posthumous award. The date is 5 March 1904, to army major Hiroshi Ogita, about one month after hostilities between the two countries started. The number on the document is 6334. As only 200 Golden Kites were awarded for the Boxer rebellion, if someone has a list it could be verified. Although I write posthumous, in the olden days no person was "posthumously" decorated with an order. If somebody died and he was given an award by the Emperor after his demise, the date of the award would be put on the date of death, so theoretically he would still be living when he received the order. By the way, this did not apply to the medals. Best regards, Pieter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 but an early Russo-Japanese war posthumous award It may well be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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