Help with a british army jacket

[Gungadd]

Can anyone tell me about this jacket?

[Gungadd]

[Gungadd]

[Gungadd]

Tags are washed out in coat

[Jerry B]

70's to 90's ish dpm camo jacket, the sort of thing you used to see in every army and navy stores a few years back.

[Gungadd]

Seller claims this in 1968 pattern DPM. Can anyone confirm this?

[Jerry B]

this one is said to be 68 pattern dpm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORIGINAL-1968-70-DPM-68-COMBAT-JACKET-SMOCK-FALKLANDS-WAR-ERA-SIZE-4-PARA-USED-/321472724334?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item4ad9447d6e

[SimonLMoore]

Seller claims this in 1968 pattern DPM. Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, it is 1968 pattern.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Gungadd - a Please and Thankyou never goes amiss !

[jf42]

Seller claims this in 1968 pattern DPM. Can anyone confirm this?

I would have to differ. That collar was introduced on later models of DPM. This is not my AOE but I recollect that the earliest models of DPM combat jacket were essentially of the same design as the olive drab 'gaberdine' combat smock that preceded the introduction of the DPM. In the early to mid-1970s, at any rate, it still had the stitched stand-and-fall collar with storm tab as opposed to the mandarin-style storm collar with no lapel that is seen on the examples shown here.

[SimonLMoore]

I would have to differ. That collar was introduced on later models of DPM. This is not my AOE but I recollect that the earliest models of DPM combat jacket were essentially of the same design as the olive drab 'gaberdine' combat smock that preceded the introduction of the DPM. In the early to mid-1970s, at any rate, it still had the stitched stand-and-fall collar with storm tab as opposed to the mandarin-style storm collar with no lapel that is seen on the examples shown here.

Sorry you're not entirely correct, the stitched collar is indicative of the 1960 pattern combats, made originally in an olive green as you say, then in DPM (sometimes erroneously termed 1966 pattern), as you say the earliest DPM combat jacket or smock meant for general issue, it retained the stitched collar and storm tab.

But the jacket initially posted in this thread is indeed the 1968 pattern which introduced the plain collar.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30094715

You're not wrong in saying that the 1960 pattern manufactured in DPM (stitched stand and fall collar and all) was still in service right through the 1970s and is seen in some photos of the Falklands War, being a nicer better made garment overall I understand the 1960 jacket was sought after in preference to the 1968 pattern.

I have examples of most of the basic combat clothing used by the British Army from the Smocks and Trousers Combat Sateen, 1952 and 1953 pattern of the Korean War through to 1968 pattern where my interest has for the moment somewhat petered out, I will endeavour to have a photography session at some point in the future and make a thread clarifying the development as I feel it's fairly interesting.

Edited September 10, 2014 by SimonLMoore

[jf42]

Ah. I stand corrected. That makes sense You have to love it, don't you though ?

The '1960 Pattern' DPM- "not manufactured until 1968 (issued in 1969) -according to IWM as quoted above.

When did the '1968' Pattern actually hit the streets. I am pretty sure the '1960 Pattern DPM' had a hood attachment (as did the olive drab?) but perhaps I wasnt paying close enough attention. I know the RGJ who were among the first to be issued with DPM tended to rip the jacket linings out and have the trousers tailored to within an inch of a healthy sperm count for barracks wear. Perhaps those were in fact 1968s.

[SimonLMoore]

You're quite right the combats from the Korean War vintage examples through '60 and '68 pattern could all have a hood buttoned on. The IWM doesn't get everything right by a long shot with it's captioning though most of the other details are good. You do have to laugh indeed about the British Army when it comes to nomenclature and patterning, I will double check the date of introduction for 1960 Pattern in DPM material as I think '68 with it being worm from '69 might be a little late, given other reference I have read, I'll get back to you on that.

As for the RGJ that sounds like '68 pattern, as mentioned in the IWM article the lining was often removed, then they made '84 / '85 pattern (I've seen collectors use both, not sure which is right) without the lining but ended up with a rather inferior quality bit of kit, how often is that the way!

Edited September 10, 2014 by SimonLMoore

[SimonLMoore]

To confirm the IWM is incorrect for the 1960 Pattern DPM introduction date, it was 1966, hence it's unofficial name of '1966 Pattern' I mentioned earlier.

[jf42]

Interesting. I remember clearly first seeing some Royal Green Jackets cadre at the Depot wearing in DPM in 1970. Some of them were still wearing 7th Armoured brigade flashes so presumably they had been issued the kit previously when with 1st RGJ in BAOR. (IIRC, there were some 20th Armoured flashes from 2nd RGJ, too). In 1969, 2RGJ were used in a training/PR film called 'Battle Group' shot in BAOR and may have recieved early issue of DPM although in the photo set reached via the following link not everyone is wearing DPM. I have a feeling that the Recce Platoon was among the first to receive the kit.

http://www.rgjphotos.org.uk/2rgj/2rgjbgfilm.htm

http://www.rgjphotos.org.uk/2rgj/2rgjbgfilm.htm

(looks like a mix of 1st ('1966')and 2nd Pattern (1968) to me!)

1 RGJ were wearing olive green combats when they went Northern Ireland in 1969. Back in BAOR a year later they were in DPM

3 RGJ seem to have had DPM first issued when they went to Northern Ireland in 1970

Most people around the Depot were still in olive green combat gear but some of the RGJ were exemplars of military chic wearing tiny berets, tailored US Army 'denims', non-regulation high-lacing boots. The new DPMs set off the image.

Only one regiment, large - hardly scientific, I know, but I'd be interested to see chapter and verse on the DPM kit being with battalions as early as 1966.

For instance as a crude, unscientific rule of thumb, I would not expect to see images of DPM worn in Northern Ireland before 1970. Would that be mistaken?

IWM captions- don't start me.