France French ribbon bar with questions 2

[dedehansen]

As I´ve allready written before I´m beginning a small collection with French stuff.

Here my ribbon bar number 2 with questions again. My results:

The National Order of the Legion of Honour Knight

The Military Medal

The War Cross

The Combatant´s Cross

The 1914 - 1918 Inter - Allied Victory medal

The 1914 - 1918 Commemorative war medal

The Colonial Medal

The Insignia for the Military Wounded

The Order of Academic Palms Officer

???

???

???

???

Am I right with my assumption that this could have been a Senior NCO ?

[dedehansen]

The back

Every help appreciated

Regards

Andreas

Edited December 1, 2014 by dedehansen

[TacHel]

I believe the ribbon immediately following the Academic Palms is for the Honour Medal for Chorus and Musical Societies

I have a few of them and the ribbons faded to exactly the colours seen on your ribbon bar. See here

I am unfortunately unable to ID the last 3.

Addenda: I just noticed... Duh. The Academic Palms ribbon should be the 1st one in the 2nd row immediately following the Croix de Guerre. That's a booboo...

Edited December 1, 2014 by TacHel

[Dave Danner]

I don't think that is the Academic Palms, but rather the Ordre de la Santé publique. I would think an order would rank higher, but maybe he put military awards ahead of all civil awards.

[TacHel]

I don't think that is the Academic Palms, but rather the Ordre de la Santé publique. I would think an order would rank higher, but maybe he put military awards ahead of all civil awards.

The Santé Publique ribbon is blue, this is purple, even faded... Still looks purple but heh, anything's possible.

[Bison]

I don't think that is the Academic Palms, but rather the Ordre de la Santé publique. I would think an order would rank higher, but maybe he put military awards ahead of all civil awards.

Hi,

No, before 1963, the French ministerial orders used to be worn after all military medals... This was a great frustration especially for the professors and teachers and some other social categories.

This has changed in 1963 when the Ordre National du Mérite was created, and worn in the 4th place after 1. the Légion d'honneur, t2. he Ordre de la Libération, 3. the Médaille Militaire.

However, the Palmes Académiques survived this reform and climbed up just after the crosses and medals for bravery or gallantry, but before the campaign medals.

I think this not the Palmes Académiques strictly speaking on this set, but the "Officier d'Académie" which was the name before becoming an order as such in 1955.

It looks like the recipient was a musician, leading a (military?) band or teaching music, something like that.

My two cents to this discussion.

Regards

Bison

[TacHel]

... before 1963, the French ministerial orders used to be worn after all military medals...

Regards

Bison

I did not know that, great info! Makes the entire ribbon rack look OK. Bison, think the last 3 are music related medals from bands or church choirs?

[TacHel]

Well I'll be darned, I found 1 of them.

Definitely a musician or kapellmeister.

The center ribbon in the 4th row is a music related associative medal. CLICK HERE

Page 1 of the associative medals, 8th row down at far left, Médaille des Sociétés Musicales,

or

Page 3 of the associative medals, 19th row at far left, Médaille des Confédérations Musicales.

or

Page 4 of the associative medals, 15th row at far left, Médaille de la Confédération Musicale de France

They all have the same ribbon. I'd bet the very last ribbon is probably one of these also with the blue faded.

ADDENDA : Confirmation here

And HERE

Edited December 1, 2014 by TacHel

[dedehansen]

Thanks to all of you for the great and time-consuming help, very appreciated.

What I´ve learned until now, musician or Kappelmeister ribbon bar made before 1963.

TacHel thanks for the link to the médailles non officielles, I´ve added it to my favorites.

Kind regards

Andreas

[TacHel]

Andreas,

A musician "before" and/or "after" the war, but with a Knight of the Légion d'Honneur, Médaille Militaire, Croix de Guerre and Croix du Combattant... I very much doubt he served in that capacity during the war. Unless his baton had a bayonette fixture on it?

[Bison]

Hi TacHel,

Until recently, some heavy mortar platoons in French infantry regiments were also double hatted with regimental band duties.

Don't ask me the logic behind this...

Regards

Bison

[Veteran]

This could simply be the set of awards to a person with a long story.

The first 8 awards could have been earned during WW1 by a young man who had served in Morocco just before. If he had done well either in the ranks or as an "aspirant" he could have first gained the Croix de guerre and the Medaille militaire. And later the Legion d'honneur, specially if he had been badly wounded during a gallant episode.

He also had a distinguished carreer as a member of musical formations, possibly in civilian life : this would account for the Médaille d'honneur des Sociétés musicales et chorales (a official award), the palms of a Officier de l'Instruction publique and possibly the Legion d'honneur which is both a military and a civilian award.

The last three are "private or associative awards" which would not be worn on a military uniform but could be tolerated on the uniform of a civilian band leader.

This is just thinking aloud...

All the best

Veteran

Edited December 3, 2014 by Veteran

[TacHel]

Hi TacHel,

Until recently, some heavy mortar platoons in French infantry regiments were also double hatted with regimental band duties.

Don't ask me the logic behind this...

Regards

Bison