Home Service Helmet plate ID please

[Stuart Bates]

I have tried to identify the HP below but without success. It has the motto Ubique which should indicate either Royal Engineers or Royal Artillery but for both it lacks the scroll bearing Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt and for the RA it lacks the cannon.

These mottoes were not allowed for the Militia, Volunteers or the Territorial Force.

I thought perhaps Military Provost or General List but these of course do not have Ubique.

Any help much appreciated.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

I suspect that, if genuine, it must be some branch/sub-section of the Royal Engineers as the lack of the cannon mitigates against its being Royal Artillery.

It was originally described as Royal Engineers and was changed to Royal Artillery when I informed the seller that that was doubtful because of the lack of the lower scroll. I then told him that it could not be RA because, once again, of the lack of the lower scroll, a cannon and the spike rather than the cup and ball.

It is a lash-up as one can see that it has been re-badged.

Certainly there were variations on the Ubique scroll in the area of the tails of the scroll and the plate is fitted far to low if it were once an RA plate. Look at the right hand tail of the scroll as compared to the left hand side. Perhaps it was cut down but not a bad job if so, but why? Much easier to get another plate that would fit although possibly expensive, and not RA because of the spike.

Stuart

Edited January 2, 2015 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

It has been suggested that it may for Academy Staff (not regimentally listed) at "The Shop": Royal Military Academy, Woolwich".

I found these illustrations in The Shop;" the story of the Royal Military Academy and it would seem that the two soldiers wearing the helmet, in each photo, have the RA plate, so no better off.

Early RA helmets did have the spike but this was discontinued in August, 1881, this plate, of course, has the King's Crown.

Stuart

Edited January 1, 2015 by Stuart Bates

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Stuart,

I do hope that the membership can help with this.

While my library is "light" on information when it comes to headgear I can find nothing to help in the books I do have .

I'll "pin" this in this section for a while to give it as much exposure as possible.

Regards

Brian

[Stuart Bates]

Will Mathieson has solved the problem with this "photo" from his research of Major H. de H. Haig, R.E. However, it begs the question as to why the variation from the "sealed pattern" RE plate?

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

I must have got myself confused as Major Haig's HP does not prove anything concerning the HP that I originally posted which does have the scroll.

I am looking at a BC helmet described as being to the RE and it also lacks any scroll whatsoever.
http://www.collectorssource.com/headwea ... n-tin.html

The accompanying tin has "Royal Engineers Services" on the plaque so I wonder if there is a connection. I did start a post on "Royal Engineer Services" on another forum but we failed to come to a definitive conclusion.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]