Qing Dynasty - Order of the Blue Dragon

[drclaw]

This is up for auction in Hong Kong in April as a "very rare" medal in "uncirculated" condition. I had initial doubts about this specimen which JC later confirmed. Apparently quite a few of these reproductions have surfaced in China.

It's interesting to compare this with a specimen that was offered for sale by Morton and Eden in 2011, which was also listed as a Second Class sash badge. In that specimen, the rays were plain white enamel while these rays are identical to the Golden Grain badges.The design of the dragon is also different.

Perhaps the biggest indicator - the enameling just doesn't "feel" right. Very similar to the reproductions / fakes we've come to know.

I would approach any specimen of the Coloured Dragons with extreme suspicion. All the evidence suggests they were never awarded and that the Double Dragons were awarded as late as one week before the abdication of the monarchy in February 1912. If any WERE produced, they would be samples or perhaps specimens for future award. In either case, the chances of any surviving the overthrow of the Dynasty, the Warlord period, the Japanese invasions, etc, etc, would be extremely small.

What do others think?

[JapanX]

Just now, drclaw said:

This is up for auction in Hong Kong in April as a "very rare" medal in "uncirculated" condition.

Give us a link or post some pictures  

[drclaw]

Nick, I posted a pic in the original post but perhaps its not working? I can see it. 

The auction is the Spunk Kong Kong numismatic sale. There's a suspicious 8th class Black Dragon too. Sorry I've yet to work out how to copy and paste a link using a smart phone ...

[JapanX]

Yes, I see a picture in your first post. 

Looks like original piece.

Chinese made (indeed they used golden grain base).

2nd class.

Just now, drclaw said:

 It's interesting to compare this with a specimen that was offered for sale by  Morton and Eden in 2011, which was also listed as a Second Class sash badge. In that specimen, the rays were plain white enamel while these rays are identical to the Golden Grain badges.The design of the dragon is also different.

 

You are trying to compare incomparable  

Piece that was sold in 2011 by Morton and Eden was a french made piece (most likely by Chobillion)  

 

Here it is 

Take a look at these marks   

So that is quite natural that medallions are different 

Edited March 22, 2016 by JapanX

[drclaw]

Thanks for posting the Morton and Eden specimen. I did not see the diamond mark on the suspension ring.

It still strikes me as suspicious that a 2nd class Blue Dragon sash badge and an 8th class Black Dragon badge appears in 2011 then in 2016 another but different specimens appear for sale. Not a 4th class Blue Dragon or a 6th Class Black Dragon but exactly those same ones. 

[JapanX]

Just now, drclaw said:

It still strikes me as suspicious that a 2nd class Blue Dragon sash badge and an 8th class Black Dragon badge appears in 2011  

The piece that M&E sold back in 2011 was a 3rd class badge.

It has a ring for neck ribbon  

Just now, drclaw said:

8th class Black Dragon badge 

Any photos of this one?

[drclaw]

Here is the 8th class Blue Dragon from the Hong Kong auction. My mistake. The earlier posts should have referred to the 8th Blue Dragon, not a Black Dragon. How does this compare to the 2011 Morton example?

Edited March 22, 2016 by drclaw

[JapanX]

This one looks nice too 

Edited March 22, 2016 by JapanX