Lieutenant Colonel (QM) F.G. Winward

[Guest Rick Research]

I have a named (archaically "N.orth B.ritain" Scottish tailor label) WW2 tunic for Royal West African Frontier Force LtCol (QM) named "F. G. Winward."

It has chocolate brown plastic buttons and chocolate brown metal rank and RWAFF insignia. It looks like a four over two ribbon bar was removed-- and that is part of what is driving me crazy.

I research German officers all the time. This is my ONLY British officer's named item, and it leaves as many questions as answers.

I have previously been told that per Army Lists et cetera

Commissioned Lieutenant (Quartermaster) Refular Army Reserve if Officers, Local Forces, Class II (whatever that means) 5 April 1928.

(This leads to my first question, since I had the impression that quartermasters were normally commissioned from former long serving NCOs. If Winward was "long serving," he never saw action in WW1-- there are no signs of any overseas chevrons. Were those dropped in the post-WW1 period?)

Assigned in 1928 as Quartermaster in the Sierra Leone Battalion of the RWAFF, "rank as Local Captain."

(Again, a mystery to an American. Was he or wasn't he?)

He received-- incredibly enough-- an M.B.E. between the 1933 and 1935 Army Lists.

(My mind boggles. Britain is notoriously stingy with well deserved decorations never being given out, so in this time, at that place, to this sort of officer, an M.B.E. seems as outlandish as a V.C.!)

Staff Captain (Q), Headquarters of The Gold Coast Regiment on 12 November 1938, despite which "rank as Local Captain."

(How many times can one BE a Captain, before it sticks?)

W/S Captain (QM) 2 February 1941

(Third time for same rank in ... 13 years. Riiiiiiiiight.)

Temporary Major (QM) 2 February 1941

(Same DAY??????)

and finally

Acting Lieutenant Colonel (QM) 1 March 1943.

I am told he appeared on the 1947 Army List, but NOT in the 1948 issue.

(Dead? Retired?)

And that is EVERYTHING that I know.

Is there any way to find out

His first and middle names, and pre 1928 service?

Where he served in WW2 (I understand that the RWAFF was split up from North Africa to the Far East)?

Those laundry-stripped ribbons are keeping me awake at night. I feel that the least I can do is replace THOSE, at least in display form.

Here are some closeup scans, since I don't have a digital camera for the whole tunic, and don't take good uniform shots anyway.

[Guest Rick Research]

Metal collar insignia and plastic button

[Nick]

Rick

Let me digest your requests and I will get back to you.

Nick

[John]

Rick,

I have a few ideas, but I will see if I can firm them up before I respond.

John

[John]

Hi Rick.

A 'Local' Captain means he is a Lieutenant. Ai just means he is 'acting' up a rank above him as there is no one else available.

It would appear he has drifted in and out of the Service , as sort of Ex-pat volunteer.

W/S Captain (QM) 2 February 1941 - I think this could be Water Supplies Captain.

This chap seems to have been a Lieutenant for most of the latter end of his servic, but has 'acted' up when he was needed.

He may not have served as an NCO etc prior to this. If he was one of the few 'White Men' in Colonial West Africa, he would have been a man of position in civilian standing, and so could have been there as a Territorial soldier when he was called upon, and continuing in his job in peacetime.

John

[Guest Rick Research]

So as a Part Timer, perhaps the M.B.E. was civil? I've never SEEN a British Army List, being used to German ones that show awards (at least some of them)-- if he had a T.D., would that have been listed or not? Was any printed distinction made between M.B.E.s made on military or civil ribbons?

Leaving aside how he got his clothes from SCOTLAND, in wartime (lots of call for war-plastic WAFF buttons up there? ), is there any way to find out where he actually served in WW2, when the WAFF was apparently dispersed to the ends of the earth?

[Glenn J]

W/S Captain (QM)

stands for War/substantive (Quartermaster)

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

"Substantive" REAL substantive, or "substantive" tertiary level of temporary, oigh?

[Geoff Reeves]

Rick: you may have this already as this is an old thread, but just in case...

Winward did, indeed, have WW1 service - whether he saw action or not I can't tell, but I found his Medal Index Card on the UK's National Archives website. It lists him as A1241 Staff-Sjt Army Ordnance Corps and A1241 Staff-Sjt West Africa Field Force. It also lists his first name as Frederick.

Here is the link: the pdf of the card can be downloaded for GBP3.50.

Frederick G. Winward

Hope this helps a bit...

Geoff

[Geoff Reeves]

One more note: the "A" prefix in his service number denotes him being in the Armourer's Section of the AOC. These men were usually Sergeants or above (as is this case) and usually served on attachement to an infantry battalion (in this case the Sierra Leone Battalion of the WAFF).

Edited August 18, 2005 by Geoff Reeves

[Guest Rick Research]

Wow! I had no idea... this was a Long Lost Thread!

I can't download pdf files on my computer system... do these cards list actual detailed service, and would his show entitllement to his 1 to 3 WW1 possible service awards?

MANY THANKS for his WW1 data and first name-- information that will go right into his tunic's pocket!

I have been hoping to be able to restore a CORRECT display of his missing ribbons.

Rick

[Geoff Reeves]

Glad to be of service! When I get home tonight I will post an example of a typical MIC. All it will tell us, essentially, is what WW1 campaign medals he is entitled to - and what units he served with - but we already know that from the index that you can see in the link. SOMETIMES there is additional information such as Theatre of War first entered, whether KIA (not this case obviously), and whether taken POW (probably not in his case). However, if you can't download the PDF you could engage a researcher to seek out his MIC at the National Archives at Kew. Unfortunately, because Winward served post-1922, I don't believe his service file will be accessible to the general public - however, because he was WAFF - this might not be the rule. It might be worth asking a researcher in the UK who is more familiar with those files.

[Geoff Reeves]

This could be something interesting, Rick - or nothing at all. I decided to type "Frederick G. Winward" into Google to see what happened. Here's what it spat out:

http://website.lineone.net/~remosliema/bap23.htm

This is an index of Baptisms by Army Chaplains on Malta and if you scroll down half the page you'll see a few Winwards, including one Frederick G. born in 1893 into the Royal Artillery. Could it be?...

[Geoff Reeves]

Have been searching the online London Gazettes and can only find information you already have (still looking for MBE announcement which would tell us if civil or military), but I did find his middle name was George...

[Geoff Reeves]

Rick: you're probably sick of me spamming your thread - but I promise you'll like this one. I had no luck finding Winward's MBE announcement BUT I did find something else. From the London Gazette published 31 December 1946, issue 37835.

To be Commanders of the Civil Division of the said Most Excellent Order [of the British Empire]:

Frederick George Winward, Esq., MBE

Director of Supplies, Sierra Leone

So, not just an MBE - but promoted within the Order to CBE! That is, promoted within the Order if his MBE was civil - which we still don't know. It WAS possible to be John Smith, CBE, MBE if one was civil and one was military (and to wear both grades of the Order with the different ribbons).

[Guest Rick Research]

Great

Jumpin

Catfish

!!!!

I think it's a good day on the internet when I can find my way back HERE!

I have long since given up TRYING to google search anything, since no matter what I typed in on my "search engine," at least half of what came up as "matchs" were links to gambling sites.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOwwwwwweeeeeee!!!!!

while typing missed the CBE reference as we simultaneously'd.

WHAT AN INCREDIBLE BURST OF DATA AFTER I HAD GIVEN UP ALL HOPE!!!!!

Zillions of thanks!

[Geoff Reeves]

I am told he appeared on the 1947 Army List, but NOT in the 1948 issue.

(Dead? Retired?)

Retired as per London Gazette published 19 October 1948, issue 38438:

"War Subs. Capt. (QR-MR) F.G. Winward having attained the age limit of liability to recall, relinquishes his commission, 20th Feb. 1948, and is granted the hon. rank of Lt. Col."

[Guest Rick Research]

You're not on a roll, you're on a heavenly roller coaster today!

So presumably he must have been born on 20 February 1893 to be retired for age on reaching his 55th birthday?

Now ALMOST all that is left as a mystery is how/why he had a Scottish made uniform when he was in West Africa during the war!

[Geoff Reeves]

I would say that would be his correct birthday - AND - that fits nicely with the Frederick G Winward born on Malta that same year. As for his uniform, even though he spent very little time in the UK during his life...my experience has been that no matter where you were you were always British - and so as a good British Officer he would have had his tailor's send his uniforms from the UK...not totally unheard of.

[Geoff Reeves]

Some more to add...

Found his MBE - it's in the Military Division gazetted in LG issue 34010, 29 December 1933 - The New Year's Honours List to Winward, Lieutenant (Local Captain) Frederick George, Regular Army Reserve of Officers; Quartermaster, Sierra Leone Battalion, The Royal West African Frontier Force.

So, this means he was a military division MBE and a civil division CBE. I will check my sources and get back to you but there was a time when you could wear both levels of the order concurrently, provided they were not in the same division (ie not a promotion within the order). So, he may well have been F.G. Winward, CBE, MBE and worn both ribbons on his uniform. Wait and see for this one.

Next: Winward is mentioned on many occasions in the London Times between 1 January 1934 (his MBE) until as late as 1953 (but we'll get to that). Unfortunately no obituary in the Times - and I looked as late as 1985 (the online resource doesn't go any later). However, with the rest!

The next mention is in the issue of 21 July 1934 when Winward is mentioned as a member of the shooting team competing for Sierra Leone at Bisley (which, I might add was won by Canada that year - but I digress). Sierra Leone was competing for the Junior trophy which was won by the Falkland Islands. S.L. came second and Winward was 4th overall in the junior competition...so the old Ordnance Armourer could shoot!

After this he's mentioned again on 19 April 1937 as one of the 5 officers (all Captains) from the Royal West African Frontier Force who will travel to Britain to attend the Coronation (does that mean he was entitled to the Coronation medal? Not necessarily - my Grandfather marched as the RSM of his battalion in that parade and did not receive it...but Winward might of...)

His next three mentions in The Times come in fairly quick succession: 8 May 1937 has him attending a reception given by "His Majesty's government...last evening at Lancaster House, St James's, in honour of Colonial Empire visitors. The Secretary of State for the Colonies and Lady Beatrice Ormsby-Gore received the guests. The band of the Welsh Guards played during the evening..." What's most interesting about this is that his entry in the guest list is as "Captain and Mrs. F.G. Winward". No mention of his wife's name, however, and least we know she existed. Nine days later Winward and his wife come up again as having been guests on May 15th at a garden party hosted by the Duke and Duchess of Sutherland at Sutton Place, Guildford. This again for overseas visitors from the Colonies to the Coronation. London must have been party-central during the coronation as the Winwards (Captain and Mrs) are mentioned attending their third reception, this one hosted by Lloyd's for Colonial guests on the 26th of May/37.

Winward's name appears again in the Times, 10 years later, in the New Year's Honours list for his civil CBE - but it's basically just copied straight from the Gazette so you've got that already.

Finally, we find out that Winward is a Freemason - and a seemingly high ranking one at that (I know very little about Freemasonry, so I'm just guessing here...this article from The Times of 3 December 1953.

[Geoff Reeves]

There may be more to come re: medal entitlements so please stay tuned to this space...

[Guest Rick Research]

Good Lord, SO MUCH MORE? After the simply amazing amount of detail you have come up with in a single day?

I'm stunned.

My rooting around on the LDS "global" website for instance, turns up absolutely nothing except that "Winward" seems to have been a Lancashire name.

There was a Frederick Winward, age 21 in the 1881 British Census, born at Tattenhall, Cheshire, farmer's son living at Shamford Heath, Christleton, Cheshire who might have been the right age and right name IF he had gone on to enlist in the R.A. to have been the Lt Col's dad, but that's the "best" that I could find!

[Geoff Reeves]

I wonder if the Fred Winward from the 1881 census appears in the 1901 census - and where he would be - might be an avenue to pursue.

A bit more - I've been checking to see if he might have qualified for the Africa General Service Medal, but the only clasp issued between 1918 and the 2nd World war was for Somaliland 1920 (or '22 don't have it in front of me) and the SL battalion were not present. Doesn't mean he didn't get it - he could have been on attachement with another battalion of the WAFF - but doubtful at this point.

I had someone check the RWAFF history for mentions and Winward does not appear in the index...BUT...the authors (Heywood and Clarke) published a list of subscribers who donated to help them with the project. F.G. Winward was one of those who donated - this book was published by Gale and Polden in 1964 so we know he was still alive around that time. There was a history of the SL battalion published seperately, but I haven't found anyone who has it...but am making further enquiries as I'm sure he appears in that one. We'll see what comes up...to be continued...(I hope!)

[Gunner 1]

From "Debrett's Baronetage, Knightage and Companionage, 1951":

Winward, Lt-Col Frederick George, CBE, MBE

Born 1893, son of the late Herbert Hudson Winward

Has been Director of Supplies, Sierra Leone since 1944

European War 1914-1918

European War, 1939-45, as Lt Col General List

Married, 1918 Mary Elizabeth, daughter of George Robertson Edward

Created CBE (Civil), 1947

Created MBE (Mil)1934

Address in 1951 was c/o Secretariat, Freetown, Sierra Leone.

Member of the Naval and Military Club

From "Quarterly Army List" October 1943:

Quartermaster (Lieutenant), Regular Army Reserve of Officers, Officers of Local Forces, Class II with date of rank of 5 Apr 1928

War Substantive Captain, 2 Feb 41

Temp. Major, 2 Feb 41

Acting Lt. Col, 1 Mar 43

"Monthly Army List", February 1933:

Lieutenant, Quartermaster, Reserve of Officers (Local Captain), Sierra Leone Battalion, RWAFF, 5 Apr 1928

Regards. Gunner 1

[Guest Rick Research]

I am thrilled at this amount of detail!

German officers I've gotten as much on-- when LUCKY.

But this is a first for me, right down to newspaper snips and baptismal records!

From his entries, I would say that it WAS possible then to where BOTH British Empires simultaneously, being from the two different types, civil/military?

ALL I need now is a photo of him wearing THIS tunic... so I know what the correct ribbons should be on there.

Many thanks! Rick