British plumes and cap identification....

[militarycollector]

Hello evrybody,

 

I am a French militaria collector, new in this forum, and I would like ask your help to identify some british items.

I have baught few days ago a french military collection, and I have found sme items that I am (quite) sure , are British...

 

I will try to post pics ......

 

If somebody has any idea about it, and about the global value of all of these items, I will be very pleased to read you.

 

Thank you for you help !!

 

 

[coldstream]

Welcome to the Forum.

Regarding the various plumes you have shown us, the white over green over white short horsehair is worn by the Welsh Guards on left side of the bearskin cap, the all white similar one is worn by the Grenadier Guards also on the left side and both are for Non commissioned ranks.

Regarding the longer falling type which were worn by Cavalry and Yeomanry Regiments, positive identification will need to be made on the fitting device and finial top as the colours shown were  worn by more than one Regiment, for example black was used in the Albert pattern Helmet by the 2nd Dragoon Guards, 7th Dragoon Guards and Household Cavalry Farriers along with many others. They were also, of course worn by Lancer Regiments and again style of fitting will need to ascertained for identification.

I will attempt to get a list together of the Cavalry Regiments and get back to you, nice items by the way.

All the best Simon

[militarycollector]

Thank you very much Simon, for your answer.

I have found a picture about the cap......It could be for an "Inspector of Army Schools corp".....

I will wait your answer about the cavalry plumes !

Thank you again.

 

Pierre.

[coldstream]

Looking again at your photographs and consulting with the book , British Military Uniforms from Contemporary Pictures by WY Carmen I have found the following:-

Heavy Cavalry 1855 -1901

The brass helmet continued in use for the seven Dragoon Guards' Regiments as did the white metal pattern for the 1st or Royal Dragoons and the 6th or Inniskilling Dragoons. The 2nd or Royal North British Dragoons continued, of course, to wear their black bearskin caps with a nine inch white hackle feather. For the other Cavalry the three colours of red, black and white were chosen. Red was used by the Kings Dragoon Guards, white for the 4th Dragoon Guards and the 6th Dragoons, black for the 2nd and 6th Dragoon Guards and Royal Dragoons. Black and red were used by the 3rd Dragoon Guards, red and white by the 5th Dragoon Guards and black and white for the 7th Dragoon Guards. 

Lancers 1855 - 1901

The plume which had been of simple black horsehair for all Lancer Regiments was in the 1857 regulations noted as different for each Regiment. The 9th Lancers had black and white cock tail feathers, the 12th had scarlet, the 16th scarlet and white and the 17th all white. 

What you probably need to do now is check with online sources which relevant Regiment had which type of metal fittings and you may be able to narrow down the identity of each item. The one issue is of course the Yeomanry Regiments who had very elaborate uniforms linked to the regular Cavalry style uniforms and so there is always the possibility that these items could belong to them.

I have no idea about the 7 inch white and red plumes, never seen anything similar before and the tall feather plume could well be Hussar or Corps related.

Hope this helps and all the best Simon

[militarycollector]

Thank you very much for your help !!

All the best.

 

Pierre.

 

[coldstream]

Pierre,

My pleasure will try to give you positive identifications if I can as time allows.

All the best Simon

[coldstream]

Pierre, 

Below is a link to an excellent thread on this Forum concerning British Army helmets, if you scroll down to post number 10 you will see a photograph of a 5th Dragoon Guards helmet in the wonderful collection of Stuart Bates, coupled with the information in the Carmen book above I think we can positively id the last plume you show as that of the 5th Dragoon Guards although it appears to missing its top.

http://gmic.co.uk/topic/35945-7-th-dragoon-guards-helmet/

Simon

[jf42]

On 11/07/2017 at 08:02, coldstream said:

 Regarding the various plumes you have shown us, the white over green over white short horsehair is worn by the Welsh Guards on left side of the bearskin cap, the all white similar one is worn by the Grenadier Guards also on the left side and both are for Non commissioned ranks.

Greetings. The two white  horsehair 'plumes' with red tops,  between the Foot Guards items mentioned above,  are likely to be to Other Ranks  of the Northumberland Fusiliers/ Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, for wear in the Full Dress fusilier fur cap. There are a  number of threads on the forum relating to these regiments.