M35 camo style ID

[Martin2]

Might anyone be able to advice or offer any ideas of where this single decal M35 Helmet might have seen action from the camo colour.

i would like to think it might be a DAK  ?

i will post more pictures if anyone is interested, I’m only able to post one at a time 

thank you

martin 2

[Spasm]

Martin

Would be good to see some more photos. It looks to have the right "pink" shade to the tan colour that some collectors believe is required to prove desert usage. Although discussions are always ongoing.

May be worth showing it on German Helmet Walhalla forum as they own more helmets between them than an entire WW2 division. If anyone can help you it'll be them.

Still be nice to see some more photos including the markings under the rim.

Steve

[Martin2]

Morning steve

and a big thank you for your reply

as a new member it’s means a lot to get some feedback.

im having trouble with my photo compression app this morning but will post some more pics asap

cheers Steve

martin

[Martin2]

Problem solved

but I still need to post the pics one at a time

best wishes

martin

[Spasm]

Martin, 

Looks like you've solved the picture adding and they look pretty good to me. Manufactured by Saxon Emaillerwerke in Lauter.

Can you confirm the batch number, is it 3568 or 5568? Does it have a dome stamp (an ink stamp right in the soffit)?

Batch 3568 would put it right at the start of the 1938 dome stamps and just as the reinforced aluminium bands start.

Batch 5568 would sort of confirm the rough texture green grey paint and a 1940 manufacture date.

Looks like the chinstrap is also stamped. Nice helmet.

 

 

[Martin2]

Hi again Steve

i really appreciate your time and knowledge.

im sure it’s 3568 but the liner is an early reinforced alloy.

there is no sign of a dome stamp.

thanks again Steve , really appreciated 

i will also look on the website you recommended to get more opinions as to the camo location

Best wishes

martin

 

[Martin2]

Sorry Steve I told you wrong 

 

the liner  band is early un re-unforced

[Spasm]

Ah, looks to be 1938 helmet then. 

The liner split pins look to be brass which points to it being pre 1940. There doesn't seem to be a stamp on the leather liner which puts that post 1937 (although it could of course have been replaced). And an un-reinforced aluminium liner band which dates it pre 1938. And the chin strap clearly dated 1940.

For info - the aluminium single liner bands were reinforced with two riveted plates in 1938. This was due to the liner snapping by the chinstrap bales when the soldiers carried them on their webbing. The aluminium liner bands were replaced with zinc coated steel ones in 1940. The liner should be stamped on the outside of the righthand side with the manufacturer and year (be careful if you try to have a peek).

Those Walhalla chaps will give you a lot more info than I can. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers, Steve

 

[Martin2]

Hi Steve

just an update , I’ve joined

walhalla as you suggested 

my god , those guys are intense with detail , but brilliant, discussions are on going , but it looks to be more a Normandie

I will Give you a summary of the final decisions

best wishes

Martin

[Martin2]

Hi Steve , a final summary from walhalla.

i received a lot of opinions , regarding the camo , it seems to be a Normandy variant.

there was also negative ( but constructive) feedback :

the Helmet has been “cleaned up”

to the exterior 

the decal has been “dug out “ to a degree.

the liner pins look to be bent.

and the liner although original is not original to the helmet.

dipapointing to say the least especially as I bought it from one of the top uk dealers.

pictures below are of the helmet internal.

another lesson I’ve learnt

Martin

 

 

[Spasm]

Martin

Bent split pins point to the liner being removed/replaced - that could have been by anybody from original owner to later owner. Brass pins point to pre 1940 or reuse of the originals.

I would say that the rough grey green paint has been removed at a later date as some is still evident over the decal rather than being just around the decal. 

I still really like the helmet, who's to say what happened with the liner. These un-reinforced liner bands split fairly easily so it could have been replaced at any time - and you know what a bugger those split pins are to get in.

The liner is debatable but I don't think the exposed decal is. 

Really depends on what it was sold to you as I suppose, but it's a really good camo helmet with a life story to tell.

Cheers, Steve

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Spasm

[Martin2]

Hi Steve

thanks as usual for your reply

i would like to email you the advert that I bought from for your opinion.

i don’t really want to place it  on the forum, for all to see as it’s such a well known uk site and I would not want to make public any discord, or tarnish the company’s name as I might be wrong .

is it possible to email you off forum?

Best Wishes

Martin

[Spasm]

Martin, PM sent

[Spasm]

My opinion, having had a closer look (and to update/continue the thread), it looks like there are 4 layers of paint on this helmet. My guess would be a re-issued helmet (done before the rough grey green was painted on) while un-reinforced liner bands were still being issued and fixed with the brass split pins. The split pins (from your photos) look ok to me. Then the last multi coloured 'Normandy' camo applied over the textured grey later in the war for the battles in Northern Europe.

 

My opinion would be a helmet that saw the whole of the war in Europe, probably re-issued just prior to war breaking out in 1939 with a lighter green paint applied over the darker green and a new liner installed (due to the original one being snapped - as the un-reinforced ones did due to carrying on webbing) and the rough grey green applied (as per orders) in March 1940 just prior to the invasion of France. The rest of the war being spent without much use in France in the locker, other than training and parades. Then a short heavy usage when the Allies invaded after having a quick sprayed 'Normandy' three colour camo over the rough grey.

 

I think the decal was exposed after the war (but no way of really knowing when - it could have been done by the original trophy hunter in 1944 to show off to his Mum). The rough dark grey green looks to have been hand applied and although the brush strokes do look like they were painted around the decal, some can be seen over the middle of the decal. This rough grey green paint was probably supplied as a paste (similar to winter camo) which was thinned out with petrol. The petrol would have softened the newly applied re-issued and applied decal melting it into the petrol mixed paste. Looking at the remains of the decal (the turn of the shoulder of the wing and the curved bottoms of the feathers) it looks to be what's called an ET style decal. Not unknown on SE made helmets as it is thought that their normal decal supplies were limited during the massive re-issue and manufacture at the start of the war - so they used the more common and available ET style decal. (The double line faults in the ink printing in the decal could also indicate that the decals were being rushed at this time.) When the grey green rough paint was then later removed, it took most of the top layer of decal with it - hence the lack of detail (You can see the pure black background in 'swollen' patches where it has not been removed.)   

 

I believe it's a wonderful helmet that has a better life story than a mint DD parade SS that spent it's whole life in a cupboard in Berlin and marched around the Hitler Bunker on the odd outing.

 

One to keep I think.

 

Steve

Edited April 22, 2018 by Spasm

[Martin2]

Hi Steve 

i really appreciate your time and thoughts on my post.

with regard to collecting Ww2 German helmets , it’s. Jungle out there ! 

Thanks again

martin