1932 1st Hitler youth Potsdam rally badges

[J Temple-West]

Just in are these 1932 1st Hitler youth rally Potsdam badges...

I would have put them in the HJ 'tinnie' thread but after some research, I'm not sure that the silver badge belongs there...and I didn't want to split up the new acquisitions as the two badges show a little something of interest.

There doesn't seem to be much information on these badges other than the fact that the bronze was sold, as per other 'tinnies', for a donation and the silver issued to participants of the rally....  I've often read that these badges were made of either aluminium, tombac or zinc, marker marked in this way, or that..

On receiving these two badges, they have turned out to be made of cupal...this being seen in close-up images where the copper is clearly visible on both.

 

 The silver badge for participants - maker: Hermann Aurich, Dresden

 

 

 

The bronze badge -Maker: F. Hoffstätter, Bonn  

 

 

A close-up of the bronze badge shows the copper where the bronzing is worn...as with the wear on the silver badge.

 

 

  

 

[Matthew Macleod]

Congrats on your new acquisitions. Can we see a pic of a cross-cut section of those?

 

 

[J Temple-West]

Matt, does cross-cut stand for an edge on view of the badges? If so, give me a little time to set that up....looking at them they have the correct marks found an badges that have been trimmed from a planchet...but I’ll leave that to the experts to decide. 

J

 

[Matthew Macleod]

Yes, was hoping for exactly that- a view of the sheared edges if possible.

thanks,

 

[J Temple-West]

Matt, as requested...

 

[Matthew Macleod]

I don't think it cupal we're looking at.

As we know cupal is a fusion between aluminum and copper, sometimes incorrectly referred to as "copper plated aluminum". It's not plated, the two layers are fused together as layers/sheets.

In the case of your badges, we can't see the line where the top (copper) layer ends and aluminum base begins as we do on other, cupal based pieces. Furthermore- judging by the pic of the sheared edge on the bronze piece, particularly the cross guard part- we see what appears to be either spots of rust or exposed bronze layer. Since aluminum does not rust (it oxidizes), it's either exposed bronze base material we see or a bronze plating undercoat on a straight aluminum badge. Whatever the case, it would not be present on a cupal piece (why copper plate cupal badge?)

My opinion only, of course.

It might help to determine what the base materials are by comparing the weight of the piece with another known specimen.

[J Temple-West]

Matt, I am in total agreement 

after doing further research over the past couple of days I have come to the conclusion that these badges, being so early, are most likely a composite of tombac with a very high percentage of copper, which would explain the colour, something I’ve not come across on later badges, showing through the wear on these particular badges.

I don’t think weights on the badges would help us much as one is nickel plated, the other bronzed.

This is why I appreciate the Internet, and the forum in particular , so much as we have people like you to bounce ideas off...

Many thanks, Matt.

[Matthew Macleod]

Here's my duo. The one on the right is the silver (participants) version. The yellow color encompassing most of the obverse is a sealing agent that turned yellow over the last 80 odd years. A feature that is missing from the badge's verso.

The other one is the bronze spectators version. Both are tombak based judging by their weight.