P1796 Sabre.

[RGJDEE]

Thankyou for your time, I’m trying to identify the maker , and gain any information regarding this Sabre.The blade appears to have been shortened (32.5 ins).When compared to my Troopers P1796 there is also a less pronounced Curve to the blade. Any thoughts and /or comments most welcome. Thanks ,Richard.

[peter monahan]

Perhaps oddly, given the north of England knife trade, many of the British Army's swords and bayonets were made on contract in Germany.  In fact, there was a considerable scandal during the 1880s expedition against the 'Mad Mahdi' when it turned out that case hardened, as opposed to tempered, bayonets were actually bending when used as intended because they were of inferior manufacture.

The word on the tang is 'Solingen', though apparently misspelled.  Perhaps deliberately, if this was a cheap knock-off and trading on that almost legendary source of good German steel.  The rest of the markings strike this non-expert as odd as well: the blade is hilted as a trooper's sword but I would not have thought such blades would have had any decorative etching, unlike those meant for officers.  

Combined with the different blade length, I'm going to suggest that these points add up to: a copy, possibly of some age, rather than a genuine 1796 trooper's sabre.  But there are others in the group - I'm thinking of Brian  Wolfe in particular- who certainly have more knowledge than I and may have other ideas. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by peter monahan

[RGJDEE]

Thanks for your thoughts.

It is puzzling, as some of the engraving shows traces of the original Gilt .I too was puzzled by the Trooper style ears to the Backstrap.Hopefully someone can shed some light ......?

Have added a photo to help compare with other P 1796.

[Brian Wolfe]

You certainly posted a sword that had me looking through my reference books. The "R" looks like an attempt to copy the first letter of the famous sword supplier, Runkel" of Solingen. Runkel wrote Solingen with a spiral start to the "S" which looks to have been attempted on your sword. The more I looked at my references the more I must agree with Peter. Possibly this was an attempt to "cash in" on the great need for swords during the Napoleonic War.

During the Napoleonic campaigns Infantry Officers often equipped themselves with the  Pattern 1796 Light Cavalry Sabre rather than the light weight spadroon normally carried. The Pattern 1803 Infantry Officers sword looks a lot like the 1796 Cavalry sabre. I have one that actually has the Cavalry blade with the Infantry hilt. I wonder if the original owner of this sword was one of those officers who wanted a sword more like the cavalry sabre but not the weight. He might have purchased a cheaper sword to use in the field keeping his 1796 Infantry Officers sword (spadroon) for dress occasions. I like this sword and I think there may be a great story behind it, if only we could find out what that was.

Regards

Brian

 

[RGJDEE]

Thankyou for your insight Brian .

I have to say, in the hand the Sword feels comfortable and well balanced, certainly better balanced than the Trooper in the middle of the Three .

The curve is also less pronounced than the other two. Furthermore, despite the fuller reaching almost the tip of the blade, It is as long as the Others , so not a regular 1796 blade cut down ??

If only they could talk ! As the saying goes .

thanks again 

Richard

Edited May 25, 2019 by RGJDEE

[RGJDEE]

On 25/05/2019 at 12:29, peter monahan said:

Perhaps oddly, given the north of England knife trade, many of the British Army's swords and bayonets were made on contract in Germany.  In fact, there was a considerable scandal during the 1880s expedition against the 'Mad Mahdi' when it turned out that case hardened, as opposed to tempered, bayonets were actually bending when used as intended because they were of inferior manufacture.

The word on the tang is 'Solingen', though apparently misspelled.  Perhaps deliberately, if this was a cheap knock-off and trading on that almost legendary source of good German steel.  The rest of the markings strike this non-expert as odd as well: the blade is hilted as a trooper's sword but I would not have thought such blades would have had any decorative etching, unlike those meant for officers.  

Combined with the different blade length, I'm going to suggest that these points add up to: a copy, possibly of some age, rather than a genuine 1796 trooper's sabre.  But there are others in the group - I'm thinking of Brian  Wolfe in particular- who certainly have more knowledge than I and may have other ideas. 

Peter

Thanks for your thoughts,

the use of a ‘Trooper’ hilt and ears had puzzled me on what is clearly an Officers Sabre, after a bit of a hunt , found this example, though clearly mine wasn’t made by such an illustrious maker, it does show that many variations were made to Officers Sabres of the period.

[peter monahan]

Interesting.  I suppose, given that most 'Occifer' kit was private purchase, that almost any variation is conceivable.  

[RGJDEE]

On 25/05/2019 at 12:29, peter monahan said:

Perhaps oddly, given the north of England knife trade, many of the British Army's swords and bayonets were made on contract in Germany.  In fact, there was a considerable scandal during the 1880s expedition against the 'Mad Mahdi' when it turned out that case hardened, as opposed to tempered, bayonets were actually bending when used as intended because they were of inferior manufacture.

The word on the tang is 'Solingen', though apparently misspelled.  Perhaps deliberately, if this was a cheap knock-off and trading on that almost legendary source of good German steel.  The rest of the markings strike this non-expert as odd as well: the blade is hilted as a trooper's sword but I would not have thought such blades would have had any decorative etching, unlike those meant for officers.  

Combined with the different blade length, I'm going to suggest that these points add up to: a copy, possibly of some age, rather than a genuine 1796 trooper's sabre.  But there are others in the group - I'm thinking of Brian  Wolfe in particular- who certainly have more knowledge than I and may have other ideas. 

Peter

Thanks for your thoughts,

the use of a ‘Trooper’ hilt and ears had puzzled me on what is clearly an Officers Sabre, after a bit of a hunt , found this example, though clearly mine wasn’t made by such an illustrious maker, it does show that many variations were made to Officers Sabres of the period.

After a bit of further research , found this example of the ‘ misspelling’,  of Sohlingen /Solingen ? On a Trooper blade in one of Mr Withers excellent publications.