White wall of Ingria

[JohanH]

Hello!

 

I wonder if any of any forum member has any information about the medals from Ingria. 

 

As far as I know the following medals exists and also a numbered badge. 

 

Cross for privates

Cross for officers

Cross for merit

 

 

But when browsing through the book on Finnish ODM by Vladimir Glushko he shows what appears to be a merit cross with swords. The picture itself looks photoshopped and there are several errors and photoshopped pictures in the book. But it made me wonder if such a cross exists?

 

Also, does anyone know how many crosses were awarded of the different classes? I've read somewhere that around 20 officers crosses and only 2 merit crosses were awarded. Of the merit crosses one went to a Finnish doctor and the other to an American. But how many crosses to privates?

 

If anyone know of a cross for a private for sale, I am definitely interested!

 

And one last thing, does anyone have any contact information to Vladimir Glushko? I wish to contact him on another matter. 

[JohanH]

Perhaps a few photos might boost the interest...

 

First the officers cross. As far as I know only awarded around 20 times. Can anyone confirm that number?

 

 

 

 

Secondly the merit cross. 

Unfortunately it has a enamel damage, but since only two crosses were awarded. I doubt I will find another one. 

 

 

[Destruction]

Hi Johan,

These crosses are the minefield, to be honest.

First of all, I've read about such types:

 

1. Cross for privates, 1st and 2nd class

2. Cross for officers, 1st and 2nd class

3. Cross for bravery/merit, also in two classes (with swords).

 

Ciphers of ppl awarded differs from source to source, something like 20 ppl / 1st class of cross for privates and around 100 with the 2nd. As for officers/bravery crosses, only few of them were ever given.

 

As far as I'm concerned, no one has ever shown neither 1st class of any type nor the 2nd class for bravery.

 

What disturbs me when looking at your pictures...following the description these crosses were NOT enameled.

1st class badges for privates were gilded and the 2nd class badges were silvered with gilded shield, while other two types were gilded with silvered wreaths.

Jani Tiainen once showed this cross which looks believable.

Whoever made enameled specimens, when and why--I have no idea.

 

One more from the internet. Translation: Bravery Cross of the Ingrian White Wall

Edited October 27, 2021 by Destruction

[JohanH]

Thank you for your reply.

 

I have discussed this topic with a very knowledgeable collector and he has in his collection an officers cross (identical to mine) with solid provenance. So I am 100% comfortable that my crosses are totally original and legit. 

 

Both him and me seriously doubts that there should be different classes of the crosses. 

 

No one seem to have ever seen any other types than the two I show and the one you show (from Jani). 

The one with swords that is shown in Glushko's book is made in photoshop (or similar) and does not show a real cross with swords.

 

The one you show without enamel is the enlisted men's cross.  Which is also what Tiainen states in his book. 

 

 

 

 

[Destruction]

Hey Johan,

As I said, it's a minefield, so I will not insist by now.

As you see we're arguing using phrases like "I read this somewhere" and " I was told", because none has any serious arguments.

To provide more info I need to buy and check some books on a subject, will get back if I'll have more info.

 

But to be honest, all these enameled versions around look unused and brand new IMO. And the Merit cross (with wreath) which by your info was awarded only twice, do exist in 4 examples, at least I've seen 4 of them thus far.

 

Best!

Serg

[Destruction]

P.S. Refreshed my memory by one of the sources and I stand corrected.

Only the 1st cross (which you call cross for privates) was established in 2 classes (all gilded/silvered with gilded shields). The other two had just one class.

All crosses were established 16.11.1919