Iron cross 2nd class question

[Michaelwave]

Hello everyone. I recently bought this small award bar. 
nothing special and I used to collect more until I sold everything to shift my focus on other medals and orders(soviet stuff mostly). So I never really got into Iron crosses that much. 
 

I would just like to ask if it is possible to identify the manufacturer of the cross. I don’t really want to take the ribbon apart to look if the ring has a stamp. And I can’t really show the back very well without tearing something. 
It is magnetic 

Is it a war time piece or a post war production?

 

Very rusty

 

[VtwinVince]

That's some patina for sure. I know nothing about EK's, but my guess is AWS.

[ChrisKelly]

That Iron Cross has some surface rust on it, as does the Honor Cross next to it, so it has been exposed to moisture/humidity.

 

Given the "stylized"/"art nouveau" 1914 date on the front, and the taller, slimmer "W", I am tempted to guess it may be a "WILM", likely manufactured sometime 1917-1921.

 

 

 

Sources:

 

Image1: WILM [H.J.Wilm/Berlin]

https://gielsmilitaria.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=16595

 

Image 2: WILM [H.J.Wilm/Berlin]

https://bevo-militaria.com/shop/sold/ww1-1914-iron-cross-second-class-by-wilivi/

 

Image 3: WILM [H.J.Wilm/Berlin]

https://gielsmilitaria.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=12460

 

Image 4: KO [Königliches Münzamt Orden/Berlin]

https://gielsmilitaria.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=15994

 

Edited January 6 by ChrisKelly

[ChrisKelly]

Addendum:

 

https://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/1914_EK2_makers.htm

 

[Michaelwave]

9 hours ago, ChrisKelly said:

That Iron Cross has some surface rust on it, as does the Honor Cross next to it, so it has been exposed to moisture/humidity

I bought it from the great grandson of the veteran. Looks like they didn’t really bother much to take good care of the award.

Or maybe it’s just the humidity in northern Germany…, that’s where it’s from. 
 

Thanks for the answers everyone. This is very helpful   

Edited January 6 by Michaelwave

[ChrisKelly]

For "Michaelwave":

 

You may be able to turn the suspension ring on the Iron Cross to see the hallmark, if there is one.  However, be super extra careful!  Given the humidity/moisture to which this medal bar has been exposed, the ribbons are likely "hard" and will break and crumble easily.

 

Disappointing that the great grandson sold off his great granfather's medal bar.  One more family heirloom sent away to the anonymity of the collector's market.

[Michaelwave]

I will try to turn the suspension ring a bit when I get the chance to. But damaging the award for the sake of knowing the manufacturer doesn’t seem worth it. 
 

About the veteran. I asked for more information but he didn’t want to say anything. Except “it’s from my father and his father and his father”

so the last name “Haese” is consistent here.

that’s about all I could figure out 

[ChrisKelly]

One more consideration...  Be super extra careful. You cannot clean any of the medals without severely damaging them.  The surface corrosion, unfortunately, is permanent.  The Iron Cross's suspension ring does look too far recessed in the ribbon to try and determine if there's a hallmark on it without damaging or destroying the ribbon.

 

Myself, I'd like to see the whole medal bar.  In spite of the corrosion, that's a nice Iron Cross.  Since the Honor Cross for Front Fighters is part of it, it is a Third Reich medal bar.  That may explain your seller's reticence to say anything more about it than it's for sale by the owner.

[Michaelwave]

Personally I’m not a fan of restoring/cleaning medals/orders. I keep everything as it is.

 

heres the whole medal bar

[Michaelwave]

Got another iron cross coming my way. But this time with a “Kriegs-Chronik”. 
I’ll show it in here too when I get it. 

[ChrisKelly]

In spite of it all, I like that medal bar.  I am looking forward to your next acquisition.

[Michaelwave]

I think I will post it in here instead of creating a new topic. 
The Krigeschronik is way bigger than I expected! Beautiful piece of art. 
With an iron cross 2nd class, Hindenburgkreuz, and a wounded badge L22. Which is the version instituted in 1939. Was it possible for a veteran of the First World War to receive this badge if he never got the version instituted in 1918? 
Other than that nothing special. Although the seller was so kind enough to give me an Infanteriesturmabzeichen as a gift.

Edited January 10 by Michaelwave

[ChrisKelly]

L22 Wound Badge in Black:  Rudolf Souval of Vienna, Austria.  Wonder if it's "de-nazified".  It's a solid reverse, which makes me think it was originally a silver grade badge, or, potentially, a 1957 black grade badge.  

 

The 1914 Iron Cross Second Class is a KO [Königliches Münzamt Orden/Berlin] production, likely late war or early post-war [1917-1921].  Nice, clear hallmark on the suspension ring.

 

Decent, well-worn group.

 

The "kriegs-chronik" is a custom job.  Beautiful art-nouveau.  Should be framed.  Likely once was.

 

This entire group makes a really grand display.

[Michaelwave]

Here’s a close up of the wounded badge. 
it’s very scratched where the swastika is supposed to be 

[ChrisKelly]

Definitely a blackened silver grade badge that's been "de-nazified".

[Bernd_W]

In the picture is is wearing the Uniform of the Hessian I.R. 115.

After his wounding at the leg he was almost two years in hospital.

IMO it would be a no-no to wear a WW2 wound badge if you received the WW1 one, also it was IMO not necessary, WW1 awards were available during the Weimar Republic or the 3. Reich. Perhaps he got this late WW2 or early FGR when there was nothing available, but its also strange, because I never heard about some shortage for awards in these times.

[ChrisKelly]

Not sure if this veteran "substituted" a 1939 badge for a 1918 badge.  Seems unlikely.  However, he may have been subsequently wounded in the Second World War, as even civilians were awarded the Wound Badge if wounded in Allied air raids against Germany, from March 1943 until May 1945. 

 

Further documents are missing...  All his "kriegschronik" states is his First World War service, including being wounded in action at Noyon, on 9 June 1918, and his subsequent two years covalescence, which apparently ended 30 March 1920. 

 

Whoever created that "kriegschronik" document did a fantastic job, and may have had access to both Guardsman Karl Schmick and his Wehrpass.  Loved the portrait in the parade/dress uniform.  By the way...  What kind of belt buckle is that, with just the kaiser's crown?  I've never seen one like it.  Adds flair to that uniform.  Nice.

[Michaelwave]

I have seen a few Kriegschroniken mention the possesion of the wounded badge too.
Since this one doesnt i would like to assume that he didnt have one in the first place before the 1939 one was instituted. 

[Bernd_W]

The belt buckle is the Hessian one. The Litzen at the cuffs are for the guard regiment. There were no other Hessian regiments with this Litzen at the Brandenburg cuffs. So its I.R. 115 

 

34 minutes ago, Michaelwave said:

I have seen a few Kriegschroniken mention the possesion of the wounded badge too.
Since this one doesnt i would like to assume that he didnt have one in the first place before the 1939 one was instituted. 

 

Ok, then its likely for a WW2 wounding. Was confused by the almost two years in hospital, but perhaps the wounding was not so bad and he had to stay because of further infections resulting from bad hygienic habits. My great grandfather was several years in hospital and almost lost his leg w/o any wounding. Just a result of  bad hygienic in the trenches. 

[VtwinVince]

AFAIK civilians were never qualified to receive the wound badge.

[ChrisKelly]

 

Source:

 

https://www.ratisbons.com/shop/militaria-from-1918/documents-paperwork/single-certificate-or-document/certificate-to-wound-badge-in-black-awarded-to-a-civilian.html

 

[Last two words in line three of the ink-stamped signature element at the bottom of the document are legible enough to read: "Luftgau VI"]

 

Edited January 11 by ChrisKelly

[VtwinVince]

Thanks for those images, just learned something new today.