Bundesrepublik Case 1957 Oakleaves And Swords

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

Following my previous thread

1957 Cased Oaks at

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8096

and the most informed answer given by Gordon Williamson I noted on eBay the next day the following.

Well they arrived today in a little plastic case which is very similar in material and construction to those encountered with 1957 German Crosses.

Note that the top of the Oaks has the cut outs as described by Gordon in the previous threads.

The Swords have been attached to the Oaks and the ribbon loop is attached to the Oaks and touches the Swords.

Both Oaks and Swords are vaulted, of nice detail and appear to be silver plated. No maker marks are apparent.

Size of the Oaks is 20.22mm across and 19.50 mm high.

Swords are 24.4mm across.

Would this be an early 1957 set?

Thanking in advance.

Regards ...

Edited May 20, 2006 by hagwalther

[hagwalther]

And the Oaks and Swords in it's case.

[Grant Broadhurst]

I,m not sure on the age of this set , the front looks ok nicely cut out but the back looks to be cast ? or it could just be the photo .

The plastic case is a 57er i,ve seen similar cases for the DKIG , DKIS and wound badge in gold .

Edited May 21, 2006 by Grant Broadhurst

[hagwalther]

Thanks Grant,

The front is quite nice in natural light with what looks like some frosting in the 'hard to reach' parts with nicely polished highlights. The swords do look cast being a bit shrunken on the reverse and there maybe an area to the top right of the Oaks were casting bubbles are evident or this may just be a rough finish - I would like more opinions if possible.

With regard to dating - I still have no idea but they did come with the case so Grant, would it be fair ro say that they are at least original 1957 Oaks and Swords?

Regards ...

[Gordon Williamson]

One of the big problems with 57 pattern awards is that these were never "issued" or "awarded" but merely a set of design styles authorised for wear to get around the prohibition of the swastika and other NS imagery. The Federal Government may have laid down what they should look like but they were not produced for official supply to the govrnment but effectively, for anyone who wanted them.

Contrary to urban myth it was never necessary to provide proof of entitlement to the original award to be able to obtain a "57"example. In fact early Steinhauer catalogues listing the 57 awards specifically state this. They could be bought direct from the manufacturers, uniform outfitters, from sports trophy shops etc etc. by anyone.

So, this creates a problem. If literally anyone could make them, and if an award is made today by an "entrepreneur" somewhere in Germany who wants to cash in on the demand for 57 awards, and meets all the design criteria (i.e. copies say a Steinhauer & Luck made 57 piece) is it a "fake". Strictly speaking, probably not. They are simply newly made, and even if made for the collector market rather than the originally intended market for veterans who wanted to wear their awards in acceptable form, are they any worse than the truly awful quality crap that Steinhauer churned out in the 90s ?

To the case in point I'd say these look like castings taken from an early Steinhauer "57" striking. Doesn't mean they are fake. I have bought Steinhauer pieces which turned out to be castings, slightly smaller than their earlier die struck predecessors, but with absolutely identical S&L type pins, hinges, clips etc. Perhaps the low demand meant that S&L sub-contracted out manufacture of some 57 pieces to people who used die struck pieces as "masters" for the moulds.

This is no doubt why the very early "57" pieces are sought after. At least they were in all probability manufactured by one of the firms who made the original wartime equivalents, and to a high quality standard.

[Grant Broadhurst]

Just to add to what Gordon said you can find these cast cheap and nasty newly made pieces in abundance on Ebay .

Check the pictures of the backs , if you can't tell wether they are cast off the picture on badges the usual giveaway is big flat rivets .

Early pieces are by far the better quality wise and are well worth hunting down .

[hagwalther]

Thanks Gordon, Grant.

Yes, 57 awards do not seem to be easy and I'll keep these for the collection.

Again, may thanks to all.

Regards ...