Ribbon bar of a fighter pilot, or something else?

[landsknechte]

Courtesy of Stogieman, this beauty will be joining my collection in the relatively near future...

I may be opening my mouth here and inserting my foot full force, so please be gentle with me...

My analysis: Someone with 12-17 years in, as counted by the Luftwaffe in 1939. Rose to the exalted rank that it would take to warrant a MVKX1mKr [typically Feldwebeleutnant] or a MVO3XmKr [typically Oberstleutnant] in relatively short time. I'm guessing that he was not a Bavarian, since there's no 1911 Luitpold Jubilee ribbon present, and 1912-1918 seems like an impossibly short time to have climbed that high in the ranks. Unless maybe he served 8-13 years before 1911, left the service, and then was called back for WWI.

With nothing that's officer specific, but with this many different states represented, I'm inclined to read it as an enlisted fighter pilot somewhere around the rank of feldwebel that was given the MVK1 late in the war, perhaps as a second or subsequent award of the MVK. The only other viable option that I can think of would be that of a non-Bavarian senior officer who just happened to miss out on anything officer specific.

(One big question would be whether or not the Luftwaffe counted time served as a reservist for their Long Service calculations.)

...anybody have any thoughts or observations on this bar, or even any thoughts or observations on my thoughts and observations?

Thanks,

Chris

[Stogieman]

Hi Chris, Rick was able to narrow this down to (probably) one Bavarian enlisted Pilot. There were two Officers that received the Anhalt Cross the same day from this unit. Hang on and I'll see if I can dig out the notes.

[Stogieman]

OK, not a fighter, here's where we went with this guy:

Sargeant Karl Bauer (FFA4 in summer, 1916)

Anhalt Friedrich Cross, 2.kl. gazetted 28 June 1916 in Feldflieger Abteilung 4

EK1/EK2

Brunswick EAK2

Bavarian MMK1wK/X

Honor Cross for Combattants

Bavarian 15-Year LS Cross

(bumped down to Luftwaffe 12/4)

Repeat on the EK2, 1939-45

Bavarian Pilot Badge

He was a mechanic until at least 22Feb18 when he was posted to FEA 1b. He may have received pilot training at that time, but I lose track of him. This is what I have:

(Sergeant)

FeldLuftAbt 2 _______ 2Aug14 - 11Dec14

FFA 4b ____________ 11Dec14 - 15Jan17 (renumbered)

(Vzfw.)

FA 47b ____________ 15Jan17 - 10Jan18

AFP 3 _____________ 10Jan18 - 22Feb18

FEA 1b ____________ 22Feb18 -

Vizefeldwebel Bauer, Pilot, FA 293(A)b, wounded in action 16 September 1918.

Additional Bauers:

22.06.1918

Vizefeldwebel Josef Bauer (F) in der Gegend von Ayette durch Bodenbeschu? schwer verwundet

16.09.1918

Vizefeldwebel Hans Bauer (F) und Leutnant der Reserve Heinz Jordan (B) im Luftkampf mit 8 Sopwith Camel schwer verwundet.

Das Flugzeug geriet in Brand und die Besatzung konnte sich mit dem Fallschirm retten.

Unteroffizier Bauer erlitt einen Bauchschuss, Leutnant Jordan eine leichte Knieverletzung.

(Kofl 17 Bericht Nr.55 vom 19.09.1918)

So we have several Bauers, perhaps the names were annoted incorrectly on the casualties list. In any event that unit was a support unit, not a jagdstaffel

[landsknechte]

I found the thread on the Aerodrome forum where you asked about this bar, and I must admit to still being a tad confused... Just to make sure that I'm following this correctly, it's definately narrowed down to a Bavarian named Bauer - but the question is which Bauer?

Thanks,

--Chris

Edited May 19, 2005 by landsknechte

[Ulsterman]

Wow-sounds like Bauer and jordan were lucky to survive at all. Yikes.

[Stogieman]

Yes, definately a Bauer, probably Karl. The awards that can be traced, fit him. The other Bauers are shown for illustrative purposes only. KB was in a unit that had two officers awarded the AFK all on the same day. Highly improbable it would be anyone else, but cannot be claimed conclusively.

[landsknechte]

Yes, definately a Bauer, probably Karl. The awards that can be traced, fit him. The other Bauers are shown for illustrative purposes only. KB was in a unit that had two officers awarded the AFK all on the same day. Highly improbable it would be anyone else, but cannot be claimed conclusively.

←

It's certianly one heck of a start! :food-smiley-004:

The sheer rarity of the MVK1XmKr would seem to go a long way towards narrowing it down. I can't imagine that there couldn't be all that many of them with the AFK. (As it's the first one I've seen in a Bavarian group, a second one among the +/- 175 would be a surprise.)

Any thoughts as to how he might have pulled off the MVK "above his station"?

Thanks,

--Chris

Edited May 19, 2005 by landsknechte

[Stogieman]

Nope, now your into the realm of pure speculation, with no way to ascertain and/or back up any idea. Unless of course you write to the Bavarian Archives and actually manage to get a copy of his "jacket".....

I suggest a trip in person as being your highest probability of success!!

PS: If you do decide to go at some point (or anybody else for that matter!) PLEASE let me know.... I have several names I need researched too!

[landsknechte]

Nope, now your into the realm of pure speculation, with no way to ascertain and/or back up any idea. Unless of course you write to the Bavarian Archives and actually manage to get a copy of his "jacket".....

I suggest a trip in person as being your highest probability of success!!

PS: If you do decide to go at some point (or anybody else for that matter!) PLEASE let me know.... I have several names I need researched too!

←

With the "upgrade", I was thinking more in terms of how someone in general might have been so awarded. Repeat awards being one possibility, of course. That sort of thing.

Frankly, after the letter that I got back when I inquired to them about Friedrich Freiherr von Berchem (basically - We have a whole bunch of cool stuff, including some of his photo albums. However we're really busy so kiss off.), I'm not going to hold my breath. I'll probably go ahead and give it a shot on the off chance that I catch someone on a less anti-social day, but unfortunately, a trip to Europe is nowhere nearby on the horizon. (Dammit.)

Thanks,

--Chris

Edited May 19, 2005 by landsknechte

[Guest Rick Research]

It's not an MVK1XmKr-- it is the common "fashion" (also encountered all the time on Hindenburg Crosses) of making a BRONZE device "gold."

KARL is confirmed as the name of the Prime Suspect Bauer, but that is all he can be at this point. There is no other information.

[landsknechte]

It's not an MVK1XmKr-- it is the common "fashion" (also encountered all the time on Hindenburg Crosses) of making a BRONZE device "gold."

KARL is confirmed as the name of the Prime Suspect Bauer, but that is all he can be at this point. There is no other information.

←

Drat! Foiled again! My evil plans to buy up the world's supply of MVK1XmKr ribbon bars one by one have been set back.