2 child-soldiers - what are they ?

[Robert Noss]

Another question. Got these 2 photos recently:

I am not sure WHAT they are ??

Too young for regular soldiers, but ??

No second cocade on the hat.

The bayonets are very much like the 2nd WW style, one could even think the grips are made from Bakelith ??

And they even do not look german to me.

Some details of buckle and bayonets:

As always - my sincere thanks for more infos.

Kind regards

Robert

[Guest Rick Research]

They also have no shoulder straps, so in the "Red" year of 1919.

I suspect these are boys in an Unteroffiziervorschule, still in the lower grades when the war ended.

[dwmosher]

Robert

I think the older lad was actually a soldier, and for whatever reason has provided his tunic, cap, belt and bayonet to the youngster (possibly a younger brother) for a photo op. I think the rolled up cuffs and lighter bars on the collar of the younger lad are added at the time of the photo. As stated before, no national cockade and no shoulder straps would seem to date the picture to 1919. The shared belt has a Prussian buckle, so perhaps they were from either Baden or the city of Bremen, based on the cockade. As an aside, the bayonet hilt seems to sit too high for the frog and the troddel is attached improperly.

Dave

[Chip]

I don't believe that both boys are wearing the same tunic. If anything, the smaller boy would have to roll the cuffs up higher and his are lower. I think the odd bayonet frog would be more indicative of a school, like Rick suggests.

Chip

[dwmosher]

Chip

I stick by my original observation. There are a few similar areas to look at, but most noticeably the wrinkles and shading of the bottom hem in both pics. Also, the location of the top of the rolled cuffs stay the same in relation to the hip pockets in both pics. For the lad, the bottom of the sleeve was rolled under for his shorter arms. Even if you discount the tunic being the same, the visor cap and the bayonet and knot are the same.

Dave

[Guest Rick Research]

One (and I don't know which) of these two Corps of Cadets upper crust boys, January 1919, is Ernst Elstermann von Elster. Still two cockades and their shoulder straps for the no-longer officers' career bound kids.

[attachmentid=46662]

No gloves for those intended as 18 year old Gefreiters!

[Chip]

Dave,

I think you are right. I never even considered that the cuffs would be rolled under from the bottom. The bayonet knot appears to have different colored slider ball and crown. These are usually the same color with the exception of the Unteroffizier-Schulen and the Kadettenanstalt.

Chip