Austria-Hungary Austrian Pilot?s Badge ( ? )

[ATIK]

Hello. This is my first posting here. I would like to ask for your expert opinion on the following piece:

It is an Austrian Pilot Badge, hallmarked J.ZIMBLER, WIEN VII. It is made out of bronze and fire-gilt.

Is this piece good or bad? When was it made?

Front

Back

Detail: A two piece badge. The arrows point to the seam separating the enameled top from the base.

Thanks for your opinions

Edited July 24, 2006 by ATIK

[Daniel Murphy]

I looks like a good badge to me. The quality of the striking and the enamels is excellent. I would however, say that the line you see is not a seam. It appears to be formed during the die shear. Where the vertical sheared side and the angled top of the leaves meet there is naturally a sharp edge. Perfectly normal and nothing to worry about, but not a seam. There are some very good fakes out there so wait for a second or third opinion just in case. This is the 1913 pattern badge and this type would have been issued from 1913 to 1917.

Dan Murphy

Edited July 24, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Luftmensch]

I won't touch these things any more unless they come in an attributable group backed up with a photograph. There are too many of these Zimblers about with even this level of quality. Plus those eagles always look chemically darkened to me. Zimbler, Rothe et al. were making them virtually undistinguishable from wartime pieces up through the 1950s. But I know Stogie has a better grasp on "the look" in various decades.

Rgds

John

P.S. If you're new, check out this fun thread on A-H pilots...lotsa drama!

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5741...=austrian+pilot

Edited July 25, 2006 by Luftmensch

[ATIK]

I won't touch these things any more unless they come in an attributable group backed up with a photograph. There are too many of these Zimblers about with even this level of quality. Plus those eagles always look chemically darkened to me. Zimbler, Rothe et al. were making them virtually undistinguishable from wartime pieces up through the 1950s. But I know Stogie has a better grasp on "the look" in various decades.

Rgds

John

P.S. If you're new, check out this fun thread on A-H pilots...lotsa drama!

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5741...=austrian+pilot

Thanks Dan and John for both your comments. I personally feel the badge is good. However, I would certainly like to hear more opinions.

I followed the link provided by John and it doesn?t shed much light about my piece. It was interesting, however, to follow Les and Stogieman?s discussion about the pilot award with flags under the crown, specifically about the existence and usage of such an award.

Les provided a photo of an aviator wearing one. I know of a couple more photographs of airmen wearing that award. Most particularly is that of the well known German ace, Otto Kissenberth. Unfortunately, the pictures are not good, but one can clearly see the Austrian pilot badge with flags pinned on his uniform. It must be kept in mind that he died in August of 1919, and that he is not wearing a wound badge. Hence, this award was a wartime piece.

Now the question if it was an official award or a privately and specially "adorned" piece, is another matter. It is hard to believe, however, that O. Kissenberth wore an "unofficial" decoration during wartime.....???????

Thanks

Edited July 26, 2006 by ATIK