joetauchretter Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Hello , I saw this u-boat diver sleeve patch some several months back on ebay for sale and thought that this picture looked interesting so I copied the picture but never placed a bid for it . In my opinion it looks to new and may be a repro or I was told that the NVA , East German Navy has a diver patch very similar to the KM version . I do not like items that are over 65 years old still look brand new and the metal seal with string seems odd , like putting a paper RZM tag on a repro collar patch to make it look more authentic . What is your opinions on this patch ?Best Regards , Joe
joetauchretter Posted November 25, 2008 Author Posted November 25, 2008 Hello Again ! Here is a copy of an original picture ( again , I do not own this picture or patch ) showing the diver patch , a different grade but notice that the shape of the helmet and air hose are different than shown in my first posting .Best Regards , Joe
leigh kitchen Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 I thought that this was just Diver rather than U-Boat Diver, I can't remember the details.I believe that these insignia did continue n use with the East German Navy, but we'd better wait or some educated opinion.This badge is brand spanking new in appearance, but I'm happy that it's genuine - it was one of about 25 "trade" badges with breast & cap eagles, a roll of half a dozen or so roundels, a couple of PT vest badges & a couple of tally bands found at a jumble sale n London about 10 - 20 years ago in an old tie fastened white linen "ditty bag" (an old school friend found it, bought it for 25 pence - about 50 cents? - & then contacted me to se if (IF!!!) I wanted it).Absolutely mint condition:
leigh kitchen Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 I bought this a year or 2 ago, on the sales forum, I think:
KM-SPAIN Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 (edited) Hi all, I followed also this badge on ebay, and bid for it. Joe IMO is a good one, and is well know that some years ago the store with the fabrication quality pieces from Thiele & Steinert were sold, and there were hundreds of KM badges, as from other army branches, with the tags, the envolopes, ... in mint condition. In the following picture you can see two of them from my collection.About the divers badge IMO you can find slight differences depending the maker, as with most of the badges and emblems. Here you can see a diver embem from an original picture in my collection of a Panzerschiff crew man, and the pattern is different. Edited November 26, 2008 by KM-SPAIN
joetauchretter Posted November 28, 2008 Author Posted November 28, 2008 Hello Eduardo and all , Thank you for that very nice picture of the diver patch being worn on the sailors sleeve ! This is the reason for my posting the question about that old ebay auction sleeve patch ! Notice that ebay patch how poorly defined the detailing to the helmet and most important which caught my eye is what I call the " Thin throat or neck " , see where the round helmet meets the shoulder collar how narrow or thin it is in this area . I feel the helmet is way out of proportion . Now look at the second picture I have posted and your picture of the sleeve patch being worn , BOTH are better detailed , proportioned AND wider in the neck area like one would see on a real diving helmet ! Coulds both pictures happen to be made by the same maker and the one that was sold on ebay made by someone else ? I think a lot of people would like to say this is nothing more than just a makers variation but I have seen this EXACT shaped badge at militaria shows and some did say that they were NVA / East German Navy !! Why would somebody in todays world where everything is TR / KM , u-boote or SS related no matter what it is say it is NVA which sells for dirt cheap when they could have sold it for 100 times more as a " 100% original TR period piece ! " ? Best Regards , Joe
KM-SPAIN Posted November 28, 2008 Posted November 28, 2008 Joe, you are abosolutly right, but Thiele's label is original IMO, same writing than in all others that I have seen from 1941. The badge from my picture is prior to 1939, so the quality of the embroiders is much better than in 1941,but I agree with you that this one is not the best that I have seen for this high quality maker. If you compare the badges in both war time pictures, divers emblems are very different in the helmet details, the neck, ... I know that the NVA divers badges are very similar to this one, but as the Thiele stores were captured by the soviets, is not possible that they copied the badge from the last Thiele models?Joe, I really fdon't know but if the label is right, why to put it on a postwar badge, and how.
joetauchretter Posted December 27, 2008 Author Posted December 27, 2008 Hello all , While looking through my collection of u-boat and KM related books I found these pictures of the taucher sleeve patches . Pictures are from the original book " SeeFahrt- Taschenkalender 1943 . Notice that the fist two sleeve patches do have a thicker neck area and the u-boot taucher patch does have that " skinny throat " look to it . This book shows many KM patches and what rank they are , but not the maker of the patches . Best Regards , Joe
joetauchretter Posted December 27, 2008 Author Posted December 27, 2008 Hello , Here is the second picture of the taucher sleeve patch .Best REgards , Joe
joetauchretter Posted December 27, 2008 Author Posted December 27, 2008 Hello , Here is the third picture from this book .Best Regards , Joe
Gordon Williamson Posted December 28, 2008 Posted December 28, 2008 I'd agree with Eduardo that the patch which started this thread is a good original piece. There were many different firms manufacturing KM sleeve patches, so slight differences in the execution of the design isn't surprising. I've had multiple examples of the same patch where no two were exactly the same.Somewhere I have a box of old Volksmarine naval patches and whilst some of the designs follow the Kriegsmarine patterns very closely, there are two features which are noticeably different - the colour and the material of the backing.The East German patches are machined on to a patch which is lighter in colour than the very deep blue-black used by the Kriegsmarine and the material iself is much coarser, not the soft wool used in wartime pieces.Personally, like Eduardo, I'd be happy to own the one that started this thread.
nesredep Posted December 28, 2008 Posted December 28, 2008 I'd agree with Eduardo that the patch which started this thread is a good original piece. There were many different firms manufacturing KM sleeve patches, so slight differences in the execution of the design isn't surprising. I've had multiple examples of the same patch where no two were exactly the same.Somewhere I have a box of old Volksmarine naval patches and whilst some of the designs follow the Kriegsmarine patterns very closely, there are two features which are noticeably different - the colour and the material of the backing.The East German patches are machined on to a patch which is lighter in colour than the very deep blue-black used by the Kriegsmarine and the material iself is much coarser, not the soft wool used in wartime pieces.Personally, like Eduardo, I'd be happy to own the one that started this thread.Hello!GordonWhich companies made them?All the best Nesredep
joetauchretter Posted January 11, 2009 Author Posted January 11, 2009 Hello All , I hope you all had a Happy Holidays !As my main focus on German WWII collecting is the Dr?ger Tauchretter I went against my better judgment and purchased this item from ebay ! What really set my hair on fire , besides that it looks like many post war NVA badges is the fact that I saw this for sale on ebay twice ! I get very nervous when I see the EXACT same item sold time after time on ebay . Here are some pictures of it for you to see . Best Regards , Joe
joetauchretter Posted January 11, 2009 Author Posted January 11, 2009 Hello , The backing material looks like cloth , but is thick and heavy and hard and feels like some type of plastic . I took a lighter to it and it does not melt ! It does pass the UV light test also .Joe
joetauchretter Posted January 11, 2009 Author Posted January 11, 2009 Last picture for now !I will put this sleeve patch in a little display with my original dive manuals .Joe
KM-SPAIN Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Hello Joe, finally you have taken it, congratulations, it really likes me, typical T&H construction and label from 1941. Where was I when this one was sold. :banger:
nesredep Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Last picture for now !I will put this sleeve patch in a little display with my original dive manuals .JoeHello!I am jeaolous,congrats.Looks like a nice display. All the bestNesredep
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