3 Ritters.... then no more ritters....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Well, here is a question for a champion. The 11. bayerische Infanterie Division lost heavily on the Chemin des Dames in July-September 1917. Included were 3 Ritters of the Max-Joseph Orden who were killed with a single artillery shell !!!!!

It may be a useless bit of info... but does anyone know who the were...

[Les]

Well, here is a question for a champion. The 11. bayerische Infanterie Division lost heavily on the Chemin des Dames in July-September 1917. Included were 3 Ritters of the Max-Joseph Orden who were killed with a single artillery shell !!!!!

Chris, there were three infantry regiments attached to the division ( 3.B.I.R.; 22 B.I.R. and the B.R.I.R. 13). The first two regiments were part of the regular establishment and the 1926 Ehrenranglisten provides officer death information. The last unit, a reserve formation isn't included among the regular officers, so...no luck using that source.

This web-site http://www.omaha-beach.org/Deutsche-Version/WK1.html mentions the B. 11. I.D. and the number of officers and other ranks lost during the last half of 1917 on the Chemin des Dames. Note that the French "Nivelle" offensive took place in April/May, several months earlier.

You might contact the web-site's owner, who uses it to advertise for WWI and WWII related tours (including one at Verdun by the way) and ask him if he happens to have the "short" list of three dead "Ritters" that he referred to on his site.

I'm curious what three highly decorated Bavarians were all doing in one spot that they were killed by the same shell and what ranks they held. I doubt if there were three low ranking "Ritters", all with the "Max Joseph" setting around the same shell hole near the front, or "thunder pole" a little further to the rear. If -three- were killed at once, that sounds like a shell landing on an HQ or command post. That would have most likely have resulted in more than three offficers being killed, but the Ehrenranglisten doesn't show any high number of officer losses in any particular regiment during 1917 or 1918. In 1916...there is around Verdun, but not on the Chemin des Dames then or later.

Meanwhile, I'll check some of my other sources and see what, if anything, I can come up with.

Les

Edited February 1, 2006 by Les

[Les]

I'm curious what three highly decorated Bavarians were all doing in one spot that they were killed by the same shell and what ranks they held. I doubt if there were three low ranking "Ritters", all with the "Max Joseph" setting around the same shell hole near the front, or "thunder pole" a little further to the rear.

On second thought, there are more than a few young and green 90 day wonder type officers who haven't learned that bunching up in a combat zone isn't something to do.

Les

[Chris Boonzaier]

Just to see if any of the newbies has an idea about this?

Best

Chris

[Andwwils]

All three could have been killed from shrapnel wounds at varrying distances by the same shell during a general bombardment.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Andwwils

[Chris Boonzaier]

I seem to have read somewhere that it was a single shell.

Bgged if I can remember where....

[Ralph]

All three Officers mentioned as killed 06.09.1917 in the Website mentioned were recipients of the MMJO

Dr. Rudolf, Ritter von Kardel MMJO 25.5.1915

Hugo Ritter von Kraemer MMJO 27.8.15

Balduin von WInkler MMJO 28.8.14

[Dave Danner]

Just to update a bit.

Hptm. Hugo Ritter von Kraemer was Btls.Fhr., I./3.IR

Hptm. Balduin von Winckler was Kdr. III./3.IR

Lt.d.R. Rudolf Ritter von Kardel was Btls.Adj. III./3.IR

Kraemer was killed instantly ("Volltreffer" in his Kriegsrangliste entry). Winckler and Kardel died of wounds. I woudl guess there were other staff officers killed or wounded too.