North Denmark Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Hi All I have this order that I would like to know more about. The star measures 83*78.8mm (123.5 grams). The badge 75 *49.2 mm. (48.8 grams). I've been told that this type was made in Paris by maker Arthus Bertrand. Hoping someone here knows more. How many Grand Cross were awarded (list of recipients), who manufactured the Order and how old it is. Please comment. Regards North Denmark Edited April 21, 2012 by North Denmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 If a Bertrand or Chobillon made piece [1920s-1970s], their mark usually seen on star pin and badge suspension ring [another GMIC page details French maker marks]. If silver gilt, very likely there's a hallmark in same locations as well. Bronze gilt base material pieces, after about 1950, will have maker's marks only. Other makers possibly include German [Dreschler in 1970s?], Italian [Gardino in 1930s] and British firms at least. A star with a Bichay of Cairo inscription exists, so probably 1940-50 issue. Da Costa of Lisbon currently manufactures this award, usually in silver-gilt. Their 'maker plate' appears on the star pin hinge attachment boss underside. Visit the official Imperial Ethiopian [Crown Council of Ethiopia] website for more info. Numbers of awards are difficult to determine given loss of most records in Addis, numbers awarded in exile, et cetera. The award remains active under Crown Council of Ethiopia aegis. Based on image posted alone [quality of enamel and metal work plus weight] your example likely appears to be a post 1950, probably bronze-gilt, Bertrand set. Next most likely maker, Dreschler or related firm. If you need a sash, both Bertrand and Bacqueville of Paris may have material for sale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Military agent has a sash that I believe is the proper one for this order for sale. https://www.militaria-agent.com/catalog/SASH_UNKNOWN_191.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Military agent has a sash that I believe is the proper one for this order for sale. https://www.militari...NKNOWN_191.html This sash color/dimension is quite correct and the price much cheaper than what Bertrand or Bacqueville would charge for a complete sash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Denmark Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) 922F. Many thanks for the useful information. I have visited the page "Crown Council of Ethiopia." I thought this order of Menelik II ended after Haile Selassie's death in 1974, but it continued into 1996 where the order was split in two. You're right about the metal, it is bronze gilt and no makers marks as you can see on the back. Mark. Thanks for your link, I had never found this one as it is listed as unknown. It is very cheap but I do not believe it to be "real silk". I can see they have two types for sale, which one should I choose? https://www.militari...NKNOWN_101.html - https://www.militari...UNKNOWN_97.html I had only found these solutions but they are too expensive, especially because I might be swapping my set http://www.medal-medaille.com/product_info.php?cPath=54&products_id=8469 http://www.liverpool...ash-L23317.html Regards North Denmark Edited April 22, 2012 by North Denmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) The first Military Agent sash appears French assembled and the second one German made..... Your choice may depend on whether you have a French or German set. Even though it has no maker mark, I tend to think your set is of late French [1970s] manufacture based on the reverse finish, pin shape & crown attachment rivets. Since the mid-late 1950s, at least, almost no sashes are made of 'real silk' in any case--usually they are rayon synthetic material often with a printed morie pattern. At best, silk on cotton is used. Edited April 22, 2012 by 922F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Denmark Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) The first Military Agent sash appears French assembled and the second one German made..... Your choice may depend on whether you have a French or German set. Even though it has no maker mark, I tend to think your set is of late French [1970s] manufacture based on the reverse finish, pin shape & crown attachment rivets. Since the mid-late 1950s, at least, almost no sashes are made of 'real silk' in any case--usually they are rayon synthetic material often with a printed morie pattern. At best, silk on cotton is used. Just to be sure. You think this might be French made: https://www.militari...NKNOWN_101.html Edited April 22, 2012 by North Denmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I like the first one (unknown 101) since it is French made (like the medal) and better looking overall. Thanks 922F for your fantastic expertise on order medals! Your depth of knowledge is amazing! Congrats North Denmark on your beautiful grand cross order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thanks to you both, a pleasure to assist. I agree with Markus that Military Agent's serrated or dentated end Menelik sash [item 5-6325] conforms most closely with your set's presumptive origin. British and German export sashes usually most frequently use fringed ends, like Military Agent's item number 5-6321. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 These awards were gazetted in the Negeret Gazetta- a complete run of which (in English) I believe is in the British Library. Some war time awards however were not gazetted- as many -if not all- exile awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Denmark Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 These awards were gazetted in the Negeret Gazetta- a complete run of which (in English) I believe is in the British Library. Some war time awards however were not gazetted- as many -if not all- exile awards. Hi Ulsterman. I'm not quite sure what a "negated Gazetta" is, but there exist a record of most recipients From: http://www.ethiopian...decorations.htm #TheOrderofEmperorMenelikII "It is probable that the design of the Order was influenced by the Montenegrin Order of Danilo which had passed into abeyance with the fall of the kingdom and its absorption into the United Kingdom of Yugoslavia. This Order was also made by Arthus-Bertrand in Paris." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 The "Negerata " is (apparently still) the official Ethiopian Court circular- published monthly. I have been perusing it for the original regulations. I have not yet got the Derg issues, but apparently there may be copies in California (Stanford) as well as DC. The US Library of Congress has a run of them and they are in English as well as Ahmaric. Is there another list of recipients though? I occasionally see odd Ethiopian publications pop up and always wondered if there was a military/State/Court year book of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Denmark Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Thanks to Ralf Gantzel from militaria-agent.com for very fast delivery! Beautiful sash with patania Regards North Denmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Congrats! What a beautiful set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 A fine looking, excellent combination! You have had good fortune to locate a sash quite compatible with your set!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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