BUG ATTACK!

[Dieter3]

Oh no! I just discovered BUGS among my medal collection!! I have always worried about this as I have acquired a few pieces that have "worm holes" in the cases.

I always put a new acquisition in a zip-loc plastic baggie with a bug killer, small thingie that time releases chemical deterrent, these are the kind used in clothes drawers. The claim is that they are safe for clothing including silks, metals, plastics, etc. - SO hopefully this practice is acceptable. After treatment, the piece is added to the main collection - also kept in much larger zip-loc, but open so they can breathe a bit, then packed into a fireproof safe.

Found two little bugs yesterday in one of the larger bags and sure enough - they managed to bore a small hole in each of two paste-board boxes, and a couple of holes in a wood case lid. Obviously I didn't treat one of the pieces, or these things don't actually kill bugs and can resist the chemicals for a few days.

I examined all of the medals - nobody munched on ribbons, thankfully. I've placed all items into sealed bags again, with the bug deterrents. Am I doing the right thing?? What do you guys do, how might you address this problem?? :(

Edited June 1, 2009 by Dieter3

[Guest Rick Research]

Uh, move?

Where do you live?

Up here on the Venezuelan border of Canada, in the freak show that was formerly Puritan New England, we find that the refrigerating effects (mid 30s June 1--"anecdotally" of course) of "global warming" suffice to keep THAT sort of problem at bay. Nine months of winter annually will do that.

No problems (yet) with snow mold. Maybe it kills the bugs. :catjava:

[Dieter3]

S.F. Bay Area - so pretty mild weather realtively speaking, though we can have hot summers, and "cold" winters ( ).....

Weather definitely not gonna be a factor in keeping the things in check......

[Stogieman]

There's no point in treating without a proper identification. Take the sample insect to a local extension service or agricultural experiment station and get it ID'd properly. Once I know what it is; I can tell you how to resolve the issue.

Alternately... post LARGE scans of the critter here and I'll see if I can figure this out for you.

[Guest Rick Research]

"post LARGE scans of the critter here and I'll see if I can figure this out for you."

POST PLENTY OF WARNING SO WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT ACCIDENTALLY !!!!!!!!!!

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[Guest Darrell]

Do they look like these?

OOOpss .. sorry Rick :cheeky:

Edited June 2, 2009 by Darrell

[Dieter3]

This is about as good as I can do with my camera. As you can see, they're roughly 2mm in length. More rounded than this - flattened these dudes a bit when I killed them. Is this at all useful?

[Guest Darrell]

Might be that cotton stuff they are trying to lay eggs in or something?

[Theodor]

Difficult to say from the photos, but these could be bedbugs. Have you ever detected tiny bite holes on your skin? May be itchy, may be not, many people are allergic to those and react more, but many people are not.

Anyway, probably it's a good idea to show the corpses to some pest specialists and maybe have them spray the house. IF that's bedbugs, it's not safe for the human health.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Theodor

[Dieter3]

Might be that cotton stuff they are trying to lay eggs in or something?

Nope, that stuff's not actually with the medals or in the safe - just a background I used for them.....

[Dieter3]

Difficult to say from the photos, but these could be bedbugs. Have you ever detected tiny bite holes on your skin? May be itchy, may be not, many people are allergic to those and react more, but many people are not.

Anyway, probably it's a good idea to show the corpses to some pest specialists and maybe have them spray the house. IF that's bedbugs, it's not safe for the human health.

Nope, nothing like that. No bites, no itching, haven't ever seen these devils anywhere except among the medals. I don't think these are bed bugs. Whatever they are, based on the hole in one of the cases - it looks like an exit hole, not an entrance hole. My guess is there must have been an egg or larvae inside the wood, then the little bugger developed into an adult and chewed his way out!

I've got an entomologist at work I'm hoping to show them to and get an ID.

[Stogieman]

They are close to bedbugs... but that's not what they are and they would be elsewhere in the house. This is a bedbug:

[Stogieman]

They are some type of coptera (beetle).... probably infesting the wood of your display, or the fabric. the images are not concise enough for me to ID. You need to kill some without crushing them..... place them on a flatbed scanner and scan top and bottom.

[Theodor]

These may be bedbugs, caught by accident in the bag off medals. They do not eat wood, but closed in the bag, they were probably starving and tried to eat what is available. I have seen that on the TV - an old documentary about gold diggers back in the 19th century, who remained without food. They were so hungry, that they tried to eat whatever was available - they boiled one shoe and tried to eat it. In fact, one of them tried to eat the other one, he was seeing him like a big chicken. Can't remember the name of that documentary, but remember that it was black and white, and very realistic made :cheers:

[Dieter3]

Definitely not bed-bugs. Entomologist had a quick look under a scope, pretty sure they belong to the family Anobiidae, possibly of the genus Petalium.

[Guest Darrell]

.........the images are not concise enough for me to ID. You need to kill some without crushing them..... place them on a flatbed scanner and scan top and bottom.

I agree.

We are, afterall ... Collectors .... we must have close pictures of Obverse / Reverse plus any weights and dimensions needed to compare to known original bugs for authentication purposes :cheers:

[Stogieman]

Common name.... powder post beetle.

Remove medals, etc. bake case in oven, 180 F. 8-10 hours.

(if plastic cover..... remove it! ;>) )

They will infest other materials in your home that are made of hardwoods..... where did you get the case? You should advise them of the problem!

[Dieter3]

I must clarify - when I say case - I'm referring to the actual medal cases (that they came in) - not a type of display box.

So along that would have been my next question - you suggest heat, not sure that'd be a good idea. These are all japanese medals - so the cases are of wood or pasteboard with the material lining (felt?? Not sure what it is.....). I'm wondering if the bugs themselves came from Japan as this has been the source of all of medals except two (but those two show no signs of bugs....)

I was thinking of obviously removing the medals and placing the cases into a zip-loc with a small dessicant packet, then into a freezer. I can range from -10 to -80C. Wondering if the wood/pasteboard/linings will hold up to freezing, maybe down to -20C??

I have a couple of "crappy" cases that I could try as a test, if they get messed up by the freezing, they're already messed up in other ways so the loss would be acceptable. I've gotta rip everything out of the same and do a close inspection - there are other items in there of wood that need inspecting.

Ideas???

[Stogieman]

Freeze them. Sub-Zero for 72 hours.

[kaigunair]

I'm located in the SF bay area (peninsula) also, and its mostly mold and mildew I'm usually combatting. I've heard of furniture restoration places using the walk-in fridges to remove wood beetles, so a ziplock/freezer might work for at least 3-4 days. I guess I'd be more concerned about the wood expanding after it being taken out or the affect of the low temp on the glue.

Depriving them of oxygen may work, but you'd probably want to include an insecticide.

http://www.heritage.xtd.pl/pdf/full_valentin.pdf

http://www.prespest.com/beetles.htm

Alternatively, maybe you can put them all into a large, sealable plastic bag, and have the local terminex guy provide some of the fumigation gas that they use for tenting homes (or put them in a friend's house that's being fumigated?). I would think those airtight clothes storage bags (where one uses a vacuum to compress it) might do, as they come in large sizes...

Edited June 2, 2009 by kaigunair

[Dieter3]

I'm located in the SF bay area (peninsula) also, and its mostly mold and mildew I'm usually combatting. I've heard of furniture restoration places using the walk-in fridges to remove wood beetles, so a ziplock/freezer might work for at least 3-4 days. I guess I'd be more concerned about the wood expanding after it being taken out or the affect of the low temp on the glue.

Depriving them of oxygen may work, but you'd probably want to include an insecticide.

http://www.heritage.xtd.pl/pdf/full_valentin.pdf

http://www.prespest.com/beetles.htm

Alternatively, maybe you can put them all into a large, sealable plastic bag, and have the local terminex guy provide some of the fumigation gas that they use for tenting homes (or put them in a friend's house that's being fumigated?). I would think those airtight clothes storage bags (where one uses a vacuum to compress it) might do, as they come in large sizes...

Yes, a bit concerned about the glue too, or wood warping somehow. I'll have to try the cases I don't care so much about and just see what happens.

I also have access to apparatus at work that can be filled and sealed with gases, I have nitrogen on hand. I was reading that info you linked, it does take time, but might be worth it! Freezing would be faster of course - if the test cases survive, I guess I'll go that route one at a time and just see how they progress.

Thanks for the replies all, if anybody has further advice, please keep it coming!

[Guest Rick Research]

Remove contents before doing anything to boxes.

[Dieter3]

Remove contents before doing anything to boxes.

Oh, most certainly! I've got my test cases pulled out, bagged and ready to go. I'm inspecting my collection twice a day now, waiting for some other little pest to show his little self - any more, I'll try to take 'em alive!!

Cross fingers, hope cases don't warp or un-glue themselves.....

[Theodor]

In what climate do these bugs live? Unless they are tropical creatures, they'd survive the cold. Even if the adults die, probably the eggs are designed to survive winter temperatures.

[Naxos]

Anobium punctatum