Stogieman Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (A) Deep freeze will kill them, We're talking sub-zero. Your home freezer will probably NOT do it. Talk to antique shops and find someone who does this... it's not an uncommon occurrence. I was involved in getting a (2.5mil+) doll collection treated.....(B) If someone offers to GIVE you something..... you'll be in violation of a multitude of laws.... passing out Vikane (or any other fumigant) gas used for fumigation will kill you and everyone in your home.Geez guys, this IS what I do for living for 25+ years now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Don't care what you say - I'm staying in Africa and fighting lions !!! If I do have to come to the US , I want Stogieman as a neighbour..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Reaching ultra-low temperatures is not a problem - I've got -20C thru -80C freezers at my disposal. No plans for fumigation gases!! Though I do have access to other gases like Nitrogen and chambers in which I can deprive the environment of oxygen - though from what I'm gathering this type of treatment could take many, many weeks. I will contact some local conservators and a museum or two to see what they might do/recommend with their textile collections to prevent or treat this condition. Stogieman, can you elaborate on that doll collection - how was it treated???If the freezing proves too damaging or otherwise unsuccessful, or I can't undertake other methods, I'll have to go the "gas" route.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The doll collection was for the wife of the owner of one of the NE Hockey teams. (Their bedroom was bigger than my entire house...) Nice people, she liked pre-1920 European dolls, primarily German & French... a little Spanish tossed in for fun. They developed an infestation of Golden Casemaking Clothing Moths. Nasty little buggers, very hard to get rid of. Ultimately, they went fumigation. I had advised against it. Some of the wax dolls were damaged as were some period clothing from the treatment. On the other hand; after about 3 months we had successfully eliminated the problem in the home. The house itself was treated with a combination of pheromone traps, IGR's and other materials. In essence; everything fabric in the house had to be dry-cleaned. It was a battle. (usually with homeowner compliance with my instructions)If your freezers reach -80C. that will do it. Remember that emergence of adults is contingent upon a multitude of environmental factors. Heat, moisture content of the wood, humidity even starch content of the cellulose fibers that actually constitutes 98% of wood is critical. I've seen wood-boring beetles emerging from kiln-dried lumber 4 years after being installed in a house!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The doll collection was for the wife of the owner of one of the NE Hockey teams. (Their bedroom was bigger than my entire house...) Nice people, she liked pre-1920 European dolls, primarily German & French... a little Spanish tossed in for fun. They developed an infestation of Golden Casemaking Clothing Moths. Nasty little buggers, very hard to get rid of. Ultimately, they went fumigation. I had advised against it. Some of the wax dolls were damaged as were some period clothing from the treatment. On the other hand; after about 3 months we had successfully eliminated the problem in the home. The house itself was treated with a combination of pheromone traps, IGR's and other materials. In essence; everything fabric in the house had to be dry-cleaned. It was a battle. (usually with homeowner compliance with my instructions)If your freezers reach -80C. that will do it. Remember that emergence of adults is contingent upon a multitude of environmental factors. Heat, moisture content of the wood, humidity even starch content of the cellulose fibers that actually constitutes 98% of wood is critical. I've seen wood-boring beetles emerging from kiln-dried lumber 4 years after being installed in a house!!!I concur with the freezer advice. The combined cold and dryness is beyond what mother nature trained these little buggers for and they, and their eggs perish. I read an article once about libraries using them for their older books. Some bugs would be resistant to the chemicals and others would retreat from the gas chemicals deeper into the books...but the cold. The DEEP cold finds them. Go to sleep bugs. Go gently into that good night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Museum curators - one of whom I aspire to be some day - would scream in horror :speechless1: at the notion of ANY chemical treatment, no matter what the package says about "harmless" to silk, wood, babies, etc.Typically, new acquisitions of cloth, leather or wood received by a museum are placed in a freezer for anything up to 3 weeks. I'd say a minimum 7 days, not 72 hours, just to be safe. Then winkle out any dead bugs, eggs, larvae and 'frass' (bug s**t to the non-entymologists ) visible - using a good magnifier helps. Finally, store in a place where they won't get exposed to more wildlife. Bugs is what museum people have nightmares about!Good luck.Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 One of the worst 'bug' attacks I ever saw was on the ground floor of the Cairo Museum. Most people go straight to the Tutankhamon exhibits, but I was browsing the papyrus manuscripts - all inside sealed glass cases. I don't think there was one case that didn't have small insects having a 'go' at it. I was so incensed, I wrote to the President - when I was safely out of Egypt - didn't seem to do any good, no one ever answered. If any member goes there , please see if there is only dust in the cases now ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryG Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 One of the worst 'bug' attacks I ever saw was on the ground floor of the Cairo Museum. Most people go straight to the Tutankhamon exhibits, but I was browsing the papyrus manuscripts - all inside sealed glass cases. I don't think there was one case that didn't have small insects having a 'go' at it. I was so incensed, I wrote to the President - when I was safely out of Egypt - didn't seem to do any good, no one ever answered. If any member goes there , please see if there is only dust in the cases now ???Yes, last time I went there, there were a few little piles of "dust" under the mummies stored in the big glass cabinets. For those of you who have not been there, these glass cabinets are very similar to the ones you saw at school and which held various bottles in the chemistry rooms....so not airtight in any way. Typical of the place unfortunately. All that wealth of history just being left to rot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Museum curators - one of whom I aspire to be some day - would scream in horror at the notion of ANY chemical treatment, no matter what the package says about "harmless" to silk, wood, babies, etc.Typically, new acquisitions of cloth, leather or wood received by a museum are placed in a freezer for anything up to 3 weeks. I'd say a minimum 7 days, not 72 hours, just to be safe. Then winkle out any dead bugs, eggs, larvae and 'frass' (bug s**t to the non-entymologists ) visible - using a good magnifier helps. Finally, store in a place where they won't get exposed to more wildlife. Bugs is what museum people have nightmares about!Good luck.PeterDo you know how the items are packed prior to going into the freezer, and at what temperature are the items kept?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 "Geez guys, this IS what I do for living for 25+ years now......"And it has not affected him in ANY way. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 One of the worst 'bug' attacks I ever saw was on the ground floor of the Cairo Museum. Most people go straight to the Tutankhamon exhibits, but I was browsing the papyrus manuscripts - all inside sealed glass cases. I don't think there was one case that didn't have small insects having a 'go' at it. I was so incensed, I wrote to the President - when I was safely out of Egypt - didn't seem to do any good, no one ever answered. If any member goes there , please see if there is only dust in the cases now ???MUbarak is not the guy to contact. The person in charge of Egypt's archaeological program is Dr. Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA). He's far too busy being involved with television appearances on NOVA, the Discovery Channel, the History Channel etc, being pompous and telling the world how he can tell the difference between an ordinary and royal Egyptian mummy. He's a real jerk (I've met him, but that's another story), and a publicity hound. A letter to him would also go unanswered.Although Egypt's past, and antiquities are a major (if not the only?) reason people visit Egypt, and tourism is a major industry, the country has limited money to spend on the National (Cairo) Museum, let alone the architecture and other archaeological materials from the pre-modern era.One of the lessons about Egypt being an old country, where real change takes place slowly, if at all. I have no doubt the bugs will be there for a long time, and even if mentioned on a televised program, the result would be the people who made the program would not be given further access to any of Egypt's antiquities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I agree fully with your comments - however, it wasn't 'Teflon' Mubarak I wrote to, but Anwar Sadat - gee! I'm getting old. Soon need Stogieman to de-bug me !! (But, ' T..G'.. -I don't look like Rick's picture - which is superb....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Good news so far, -20C doesn't seem to have had any ill effects on the cases....I did move them from freezer to refrigerator to allow to warm up more slowly, don't know if this is really necessary but I thought warming too quickly might not be the best approach.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS Allen Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 So, Dieter, how did it go?~TS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 So, Dieter, how did it go?~TSSo far so good - I can only treat 4 cases at a time with the space I have available. I've been running them at -20C for right around 100 hours or so. Both wood and pasteboard cases seem to be able to take the treatment with no ill effects - no apparent warping, cracking, color changing, nothing. After treatment, I places the cases into fresh plastic bags so I could monitor them for any new appearance of holes, wood dust, critters, any signs of life. So far nothing. I'll just keep monitoring them, and maybe declare victory at the end of summer as I'm hoping the warming would induce them to hatch out or come out of hiberation, what have you, by that time.All I know is any item I get from now on is getting the treatment before it goes anywhere near anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Common name.... powder post beetle.Remove medals, etc. bake case in oven, 180 F. 8-10 hours.(if plastic cover..... remove it! ;>) )They will infest other materials in your home that are made of hardwoods..... where did you get the case? You should advise them of the problem!WOOOOOOOOOOOOOThose bugs are lethal, they can destroy a house just as easily as termites. Consider yourself lucky if all they have damaged was your medal cases many a fine old home had been damaged by powder post beetle in my area.......... Good idea to have your home inspected No fun having a tent over your home better to catch them early. They seem to like old wooden homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 I don't think they were powder-post beatles. I'm pretty sure whatever they were, they were native to Japan and hitched a ride in one of the cases! Fortunately, I've not found any more among the collection or the place where they are stored, though if I ever do, I'll take 'em alive to get a positive ID! I hear what you're saying though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I don't think they were powder-post beatles. I'm pretty sure whatever they were, they were native to Japan and hitched a ride in one of the cases! Fortunately, I've not found any more among the collection or the place where they are stored, though if I ever do, I'll take 'em alive to get a positive ID! I hear what you're saying though!Hi Dieter3Glade to hear there not. Your probably right because by now you'd have holes in your floors. I live in an old Victorian and at one time there was an infestation of these creatures and caused some damage reason why I take them so seriously. BTW the cases for the Japanese Orders & Medals are the most beautifully crafted. Thats great that your able to save those works of art. SincerelyYankee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Fortunately, none of the affected items are rare and I should be able to upgrade them pretty handily. The bummer is that the medals that belong to the affected cases are near-mint condition, so the bug-holed cases seriously degrade them overall in my opinion. Nonetheless, a learning experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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