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Gentleman's Military Interest Club


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Everything posted by unit8

  1. I have him as falling out of the aircraft as well, he was not strapped in, one or two others also fell out of their aircraft. One other who fell out of his future brother in laws aircraft, explain that to your sister.
  2. A number of SAAF pilots wore RAF Wings as those are what they were awarded in Southern Rhodesia if they did their flying training there and not SAAF wings. Southern Rhodesia was part of the Empire Scheme where as SA was not, SA had her own scheme with the RAF JATS which differed in a number of ways. One very well known SAAF Fighter pilot had RAF wings on arriving in North Africa, he did his training in Southern Rhodesia. He was told by his Sqn Commander to bin them and wear SAAF wings in North Africa.
  3. unit8

    Sadf Commando Units And Group Hq

    Hi there, I am looking for information about the obsolete SADF Commando Units and their related Group Head Quarters. All information is very welcome as trivial as it may seem it helps to fill in the gaps. The Commandos are not as glamorous as the Special Forces or old Regiments but they did sterling work during their very long exsistance. Winston Churchill named his Special Forces Commandos after the Boer Republic Kommandos the fore runners of the SADF Commandos Commando Units are not always where the name may suggest ie Umkomaas Commando is based in Pietermaritzburg at Oribi Village ( an old WWII hospital and POW camp and now mainly used for low economic housing) and not in the costal town of Umkomaas which is over 150 km away from Pietermaritzburg. Oribi Commando was based in Marburg (Port Shepstone)
  4. unit8

    WW2 Sth. African Epaulettes

    The oath was also taken twice during the war, plus no conscription was used all South Africans were volunteers. The first oath was taken for service in Africa, after the defeat of the Germans in North Africa the oath was taken again stating the volunteer would serve for the duration and anywhere.
  5. unit8

    Mauser P.38 (byf 44)

    Post war produced P-38 were the first pistols taken into service by the South African Police in the early 1970's. Was the standard issue pistol until the early 1980's when the Beretta Model 92 series weapons were issued, the same weapon was later chosen by the US military and is produced in South Africa under the name Z88. The P-38 has a single stack magazine so only holds 8 rounds, the Beretta magazine is a double stack so holds 15 rounds. But one thing a Beretta can not and what a P-38 is very good at, is opening bottles. It is an exellent bottle opener, with the slide held back place the bottle top under the barrel and rest it on the body and it removes the bottle top. Would not do it with these old WWII produced weapons though.
  6. Forgot to mention it also comes in three sizes, the size shown is a unvoided Cap badge. Which comes in a voided and unvoided version and the unvoided version also comes in white metal (silver colour) The voided is gilted and was worn by officers The unvoided by other ranks The unvoided white metal only worn by non-white Policemen
  7. The SAPolice badge shown was worn from 1913 to 1925/26 when Dutch fell away to be replaced by Afrikaans. ie Zuid Afrikaanse Politie changed to Suid Afrikaanse Poliesie spelling changed again in the 1930's to Suid Afrikaanse Polisie
  8. In 1904 the Cape Police (founded in 1882) which were divided into three Districts became one Police Force the Cape Mounted Police. Cape Police Districts Pre 1904 District 1 HQ King Williams Town (Eastern Cape) District 2 HQ Kimberley (Griqualand West) District 1 HQ Cape Town (Western Cape) Cape Mounted Police HQ was Cape Town. The Cape Mounted Rifles were a seperate Force and had started off as the Frontier Armed and Mounted Police in 1855 and were renamed Cape Mounted Rifles (Colonial) in 1878. They are not to be mistaken with an earlier Imperial Military Unit also called the Cape Mounted Rifles. The Natal Mounted Police (NMP) were founded in 1874 and were based on the (FAMP/CMR) by their founder Col Dartnell who spent some time with the FAMP/CMR to get ideas. The NMP were renamed the Natal Police in 1894 when all Police Forces and Jails in Natal Colony were amalgamated into one Force the Natal Police under Dartnells command. In 1913 1 April the South African Mounted Rifles were founded under the Union Defence Act. They were a military unit who in peace time would police the rural areas (inhabited by blacks mainly), also on 1 April 1913 the South African Police were founded under the Union Police Act, they were to be a police force and in war time to be conscripred into the military. Generally speaking the SAMR were mostly the old Mounted Police units from the pre 1913 units Natal Police, CMP, CMR and Transvaal Police. The SAP were mainly the foot units as their main task was the urban areas. By 1927 the SAMR were disbanded and the SAP had absorbed most of their members and duties.
  9. unit8

    Transkei Shoulder Flashes

    The hard metal flashes were normally only worn on step out uniforms. For the work dress there is a rubberised version called tupperware. The larger tiger badge is a cap badge and the smaller are dog collar badges. Dog collars are also some times used as a beret badge. I have spare Transkian (SF) metal flashes still in their plastic bags. If interetsed contact me with a PM.
  10. They are for the Kenya Regiment Territorial Force, which was a Colonial era unit prior to WWII
  11. I have to agree with you on that point, that there are always different claims to who is the eldest etc. I just prefer the NC as they have remained themselves with the odd add on carve off ie left wing and right wing (UMR), where as the NMR were an amalgamation. The PAG is 1856 or 57 if I remember off the top of my head
  12. Brabants Horse were raised in 1899 and disbanded in 1901. They mainly served in the north eastern cape Queenstown and Dordrecht area (0n the Orange Free State, Lesotho border) but went other places as well. The unit consisted of Autralians,Canadians, British and colonials from the Cape and Natal. The latter two would become two of the four provinces which would make up the Union of South Africa in 1910
  13. South Africa's oldest Regiment and recognised as such from what I understand is the Natal Carbineers (NC) first raised in Pietermaritzburg in 1855 and are still going strong. The Natal Mounted Rifles (NMR) was formed in 1888 by amalgamating about 4-6 units, one these amalgamated units was raised in 1854. In 1910 the Union of South Africa was created by joining four seperate British Colonies into one country. In 1913 with the formation of the Union Defence Force of South Africa under the 1912 Defence Act the Cavalry Regiments were numbered by seniority 1st & 2nd Mounted Rifles were the Natal Carbineers (Pietermaritburg and Ladysmith based respectively) 3rd Mounted Rifles was the Natal Mounted Rifles 4th Mounted Rifles was the Umvoti Mounted Rifles In 1932 all reverted to their name only. The NC is now an Infantry Regiment The NMR is now an Armoured Corps Regiment
  14. For getting green stuff off medals and leather use vinegar. Remove all ribbons if possible otherwise work very slowly and carefully. Rub in on with a cloth, ear bud and do it until all the green stuff is gone. Then abit of water to get rid of the vingar traces and dry throughly. With leather immediately rub the leather down with dubin to moisten it as the vinegar will dry it out.
  15. The South African Police (SAP 1913 - 1994) had a mess dress for each sex. Females could only join the SAP from the early 1970's. I have a males mess dress in my collection to a Captain. It is just missing the white shirt. The South African Police Service (SAPS 1994 to date) I am not sure if it has mess dress as all the military style traditions the SAP had have been done away with, including the SAP colors with its eleven Battle Honours. 9 are for WWI and WWII battles the SAP fought in against the Germans.
  16. The South African enamel Warrant Officer badge below the cloth WWII one is for the South African Prison Service later renamed the Correctional Services
  17. unit8

    Transkei Shoulder Flashes

    One of the best reference books for South African badges and flashes is Colin Owen's book The Military Badges and Insignia of Southern Africa The book is just photographs with an index saying what belongs to which unit 3991 life size badges 1198 metal flashes reduced in size 1152 of cloh and other badges I see you use the Calvina Commando flash
  18. I also have a SAPolice Helmet and the inside looks nearly identical to the SAMR helmet picture here.
  19. The building used by the SAMR in Pietermaritzburg is still a police station to this day. It is Alexandra Road Police Station, 101 Alexandra Road Scottsville Pietermaritzburg intersection of Alexandra Road and Lindup Road, opposite the Harry Gwala Stadium(previosly the Jan Smuts Stadium) For those that want to see an arial view on google map it is the U shape structure up against Lindup Road. The leg of the U furtherst from Lindup Road are the married quarters, the leg against Lindup Road were to do with the horses, tackle, feed rooms etc. All the other buildings on the premises are single and married quarters built in the 1970/80's. Except for the two large buildings next to the station which are the Strauss hall and below that the old kitchen and mess hall, now the Officers Club for the Natal Midlands. Was a workshop until 1993. This building was built in the 1890's for the Natal Mounted Police as their head quarters and still has the scroll over the arch saying Natal Mounted Police. I worked for a number of years at this station, but lived in the married quarters which are in the building for nearly a decade. The pillars over the arch on the court yard side have dates scratched into them 1899 etc. The building is of Victorian red brick and stuck togather with a lime and sand mixture not cement.
  20. No that arm band has nothing to do with the SAPolice Special Const as they were only first employed in the early to mid 1980's and until 1994 when the SAP became the SAPS. They had to write a test and go for basic training to join the regular force. The SAPS is the new South Afircan Police Service, which was created by amalgamating all the Homeland Police Forces and SAP into one. They still wear the basic SAP uniform with a few changes and the SAP Colors were laid up as the SAPS is not a para-military force. The SAP had Battle Honours for WWI, WWII, Rhodesia and South West Africa. The SAP Brigades fought as regular Infantry under military command, most though in WWII were captured with the fall of Tobruk in North Africa. the SAP flashes were worn from the epaulette and with one pin to attach it to the sleeve and were blue with yellow writing. I have a Assistant-Constabel pair. But can not get photo's to load so if someone could help out much appriciated. Have tried to follow the help page here but with no success
  21. South African Police Special Constabel / Assistant Constabel NOTE for collectors The South African Police (SAP) and the South West African Police (SWAPOL) Special Constabels were just semi-trained (6 weeks training only) man power group to fufil a man power shortage. Their title was later changed to Assistant- Constabel. They are nothing like the British Special Constabels. They were called Kits Konstabels (instant Constabels) in the South African press and a few more impolite names as well by sections of the population. The SAP Sp Cst started off with a blue overall with shoulder flashes with Special Constabel also comes with the Afrikaans spelt version Asst Cst wore SAP field dress and flashes saying Assistant-Constabel SWAPOL South West African Police These chaps served as guards to bases and Chiefs, Headman during the Border War. The police counter-insurgency unit Koevoet's (Crowbar) non white members were all Special Constabels. Their backgrounds though were either they had joined as Sp Cst or were captured and turned SWAPO PLAN insurgents. SWAPO South West African Peoples Organisation PLAN Peoples Liberation Army of Namibia SWAPOs armed wing. SAPolice Equals The SAPolice equal to a British Special Constabel is the Reserve Police, who were civillians with no police service and served on a voluntary basis for a minimum of 8 hours amonth. Just to confuse matters there was also the Police Reserve. The Police Reserve were ex SAP members who could be called up to serve in an emergency. All ex SAP members under retirement age had to keep SAPolice HQ informed of their address until retirement age. Reserve police used the same uniform and badges as the regular members, they had some badges to show Reserve statis only until the 1960's. They had to put an R in front of their rank but this also fell away in the 1980's. They could only be picked out if you knew which number sequence was used for their Force numbers which differed to the regular members.
  22. unit8


    The one you thinking of is called the Striker. Is has a very fast firing rate but then takes for ages to reload. The Muzler is a pump action and has a 6-8 round magazine capacity. It depends on what you load it with birdshot, SSG, AAA or baton rounds. What is nice about it and the Beretta's is you can reload very easily and in gaps between shots.
  23. unit8

    South Africa Police ribbon bar

    Sounds about right, it is a very not PC medal to put on your CV in the new SA. My one friend was turned down for a job as he had it on his CV. Before handing in the CV, his future employer had been very welcoming and happy with him. On seeing his CV the reception he got from the same person was bleak and gloomy and he did not get the job. Only two balkies (bars) could be awarded even if a person qualified for more, which alot of members did. Especially members who volunteered for going on numerous border trips and those who were part of the police Koevoet unit which was based permenantly in SWA operational area. It later it became part of the South West Arican Police (SWAPOL) although it contained numerous SAP members.
  24. unit8

    South Africa Police ribbon bar

    The medal for combating terrorism was awared for service in South West Africa Rhodesia (only the SAP got Battle Honours for this campaign no SADF unit did) Within South Africa's borders. The first few years a Border trip to SWA or Rhodesia was 6 months in duration, but due to marital problems etc being had by members this was reduced. The first non white members of the Force to carry automatic weapons and do Border Duty was Quebec Company which was sent to SWA in the early 1970's. I have some photos of them in SAP 1st pattern camoflauge uniform.