US WW1 collar disk...

[Chris Boonzaier]

The more I look, the more confused I get....

A simple disc with crossed rifles, no number, no letter.

From what I can see, you either had company letter or Regt number... who wore a disk with just the rifles? Someone in an Inf division NOT belonging to the infantry?

Thanks

Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

Nope-- just a question of CHEAPNESS.

Cost too much and was too complicated to have a dozen or so disks for each Mere Private who could be reassigned from any company to any company.

It's just a "war economy model."

[Ulsterman]

Pre-war and post war, where troops were not transferred so much, one saw company and regiment letters/numbers. This was esp. true for National Guard troops.

Sometimes the organization details got exotic-like this state JAG officer.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Chris Liontas]

Nope-- just a question of CHEAPNESS.

Cost too much and was too complicated to have a dozen or so disks for each Mere Private who could be reassigned from any company to any company.

It's just a "war economy model."

Too true.

There are tons of different mixtures of disks out there. Some guys had regimental numbers, some wore just crossed rifles (cannons, etc), some had company designations, and others had two US disks without any specialty disk. It seems all very random what collar disks soldiers would wear per unit designation.

Then you have the mixing and matching of the US disks. Some are in script, some are the plan jane US in a disk, some have the US with the unit designation (ie US with a 28th above it for the 28th division), and finally you had the doughboys that didnt change their state disks to US disks. I have several with WIS (Wisconsin) rather than US on them.

It seems the collar disks were about as unregulated as it gets during the war. From what I have read -- the organization of the AEF after Wilson declared war about about as unorganized as it gets. Many men were sent to France without the proper equipment, and many had little to no training.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Chris Liontas

[W McSwiggan]

My sense is that the official insignia was always without designation. Units were authorized to apply Regimental designations and even company (no longer the case) but these were always at the discretion the commander and a function of supply. Enlisted members could not be forced to purchase uniforms and were to be issued all their "authorized" equipment. Hence - should the unit decide to use branch brass with regimental designations - they had to figure out how to fund the procurement for hundreds of soldiers. Soldiers "in transit" without destination units designated on orders and those serving in training assignments as either trainees or cadre would also have no choice but to wear "plain" branch brass.

[TS Allen]

Officially speaking, the left collar held a disk with a US, above the regimental number. The right disk held Branch of Service, above a copmany designation. NA (for "National Army") or NG (for "National Guard" could be superimposed above the US on the left collar.

The above is according the the 1917 National Geographic which featured all of the service's insignia and flags as a special feature, and was for a long time a common collector reference.

These regulation were entirely ignored during the war. The AEF was, in many respects, an organizational disaster, and it simply wasn't practical to try to provide each unite with the correct insignia. It seems that during the war, most units went over to simply wearing US on the left collar and Branch of Service insignia on the right.

This simplification may also have been a nod to unit security, as the AEF clearly understood the importance of keeping enemy intelligence from being able to easily keep track of American units.

Marine Corps units were originally composed of numbered companies. As the initially lacked any collar insignia, many Marine Corps units transitioned to crossed infantry rifles (all USMC units that served on active duty in Europe were infantry) with a company number superimposed on them, despite this being clearly Army insignia. As one vet later said, "it's what we had!"

~TS

[IrishGunner]

A 1941 publication, "Encyclopedia of United States Army Insignia and Uniforms" by Emerson has given the best information I've found for WWI enlisted collar discs.

The discs came into use in 1910 and many "unofficial" versions existed. I, of course, know most about artillery, which at first had only two Quartermaster specified discs; one with the crossed cannons centered "high" for Coast Artillery and crossed cannons centered "low" for Field Artillery. Anything with regimental numbers or battery letters were "unofficial" (some would say "unauthorized"). And types even varied between manufacturers. Throughout the following years, especially in 1917-18, the regulations changed frequently. In fact, the 1917 National Geographic article referenced in the post above pictured several insignia that weren't "authorized" until almost a year after the magazine was published. Also, by 1917, the crossed cannons were centered for Field Artillery and the familiar "shell" added to the center of Coast Artillery cannons.

In 1918, the regimental numbers were added to the "US" collar disc; meaning a "US" with a "3" could be issued to 3rd Infantry, 3rd Cavalry, etc. Then the company/troop/battery would be on the branch insignia disc.

To make things even more interesting, during WWI, there were US discs with "V" for Volunteers; with a "NG" for National Guard; with a "R" for Reserves; with a "NA" for National Army (the "draft" army as different from the Regular Army or the federalized National Guard).

Adding to what was suggested above, the regulations changed so quickly and so many soldiers didn't want to spend the cash to buy new insignia; they continued to wear what they already had, were issued or even what they wanted.

Here are a pair of generic cannons and a National Army US disc...from 1917-18 (the discs became gilt in 1918).

[IrishGunner]

A 4th Field Artillery disc...Battery C...a 1917/18 version. 4th FA did not deploy to France; it spent the entire war on either border duty with Mexico or training soldiers for deployment.

This link is a good overview of US enlisted collar discs.

[IrishGunner]

6th Field Artillery...

C Battery 6th FA as part of 1st Infantry Division is credited with firing the first American artillery round of WWI. Unfortunately, I don't have a disc for C Btry. F Battery I haven't researched yet...

[IrishGunner]

A Battery, 323rd Field Artillery... Raised as part of the draftee National Army 83rd Division in Aug/Sept 1917; most of the troops for the 323rd FA came from western Pennsylvania north of Pittsburgh on the Ohio border (83rd Div was mostly raised in Ohio). The 83rd Division did not see combat as a division; it was a depot and training headquarters in France.

However, artillery is never held in reserve and and I happen to have the history of the 323rd FA. The regiment arrived in France in July 1918 and went to the front in September 1918 and fought in the Meuse-Argonne offensive, first with the 29th Division at Verdun, the 26th Division near Belleau Wood, and marched to Rhine with the 32nd Division. The 323rd then performed Occupation duty in the vicinity of Strassenhaus, just north of Koblenz.