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Lieutenant Colonel (QM) F.G. Winward

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Rick: you are correct in assuming that he could wear both orders at the same time as neither was a promotion within the order (one military one civil). I don't know if the same still holds true, but it certainly did then and I've seen examples of groups with both an OBE and MBE from different divisions.

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I have a question that I am hoping that one of you experts will be able to answer. I have a copy of Services of British Army Officers &cc 1939-1945 by Savannah Publications (ISBN 1902366026), which is a reprint of the Half-Yearly Army List, January 1946.

What puzzles me is that our friend F.G. Winward isn't listed in the book. Maybe someone could give me a course in British Army lists?

Kind Regards

Steen Ammentorp

The Generals of World War II

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"Services of British Army Officers &cc 1939-1945" only lists war services for regular officers. Woodward was not a regular officer, he was in the Reserve of Officers. Gunner 1

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Rick: I couldn't help myself - I just had to know. So, I've downloaded Winward's Medal Index Card and it indicates to me that he was entitled to the 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, and the Victory Medal. I believe all 3 will be named to Winward and showing AOC as his unit, but am doing some more checking to be sure. I will post the image of the MIC when I get home from work tonight. At least now, we have a fairly complete view of his medal entitlement. His WW2 entitlement is, at least the War Medal - I will see if he's entitled to the Defence Medal as well - I don't believe he's eligible for the Africa Star, but will double-check that to be sure.

Check this space later in the evening... :cheers:

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Ah! :cheers: I figured maybe he was a Stay At Home, "Squeak" only with no "Pip" and "Wilfred," and have been losing sleep meself trying to figure out which of the WW2 stars/medals he picked up. I've got little bits of original ribbons to make up a display copy of whatever he turns out to have, but have always wanted it to be CORRECT.

We Research Folk are strange critters about getting things RIGHT! :cheers:

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Rick, here's a copy of Winward's Medal Index Card. The basics of it are fairly self-explanatory. It shows Winward qualifying for the 14-15 Star, BWM, and Victory medals - and it shows where to find his entries on the appropriate medal rolls (and I'm really terrible and decyphring the roll references so I've asked someone to give me a hand with them, I'll post more once I get my answer)

As to his medal entitlement, I think we're just about there. Here are the definites in order of precedence: CBE (civil), MBE (military) [worn together because different divisions], 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal, War Medal (for WW2). Here are the maybe's: Defence Medal (WW2 - would be worn between the Victory Medal and War Medal (WW2) and 1937 Coronation Medal (he was invited so you never know - I'll see if there's a way to find out). The definitely nots: Africa General Service Medal and Africa Star.

So, we're getting there...you'll have your (accurate) ribbon bar soon enough! :jumping:

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Some more information we glean from this card (from a source more enlightened on these matters than myself). Under Theatre of War first served in - it says Africa (fairly self-explanatory) and the code 4C. 4 was the code for Africa, but I didn't know that C was the code for Cameroon. So Winward first came to Cameroon on 8 May 1915. Now, Rick, I'm sure you know more about this campaign then I (from the German side anyway :P ) but I'm told, that at this time, there were still several months of campaigning before this area was secured.

Also: it would appear that Winward initially appeared in a Colonial Medal Roll but then was removed from there and entered into the RAOC medal roll (AOC became Royal after the Great War). You can see where it says "deleted from Col/4/4 Correct Entry BW and V roll RAOC 4126" (4126 probably referring to the entry number).

See Rick, almost as confusing as those Ranglisten of yours with out the hard-to-read font (just hard-to-read handwriting!).

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:jumping::jumping::jumping:

:cheers:

The man was a GLUTTON for steaming pestholes!!!!! :speechless1:

No wonder he zoomed up through the ranks-- through some amazing feat of accidental biology, he must have been the only one not perpetually/permanently down with a variety of hideous and recurring tropical maladies the mind had best not dwell upon.

I can only agree about both the penmanship and the obscure and baffling record keeping. Apparently this has always been a "job security" measure for They Who Interpret The Omens.

Given his unbelievably long service in one of the worst places on earth, I'm guessing he never left during the NEXT war, even as the RWAFF was split up and sent all over--

who'd have stayed behind in the jungle and minded shop if he was gone too?

As I read the WW2 qualifications, I don't think West Africa qualifid for a Defense Medal since the only "enemy" there had always been and is still there: heat, disease, and rot.

Wow. The deeper this develops the more I wonder what became of him-- after THIRTY YEARS there, did he stay on after retirement and finally die there? Or did he take his pension and go off to a flat in Manchester or wherever in the Mother Country?

I'm sure of how the tunic ended up here-- the former Chinese officer I got it from was in London when all the military tailors had the 99 year leases on their premises come to and end, and they were all pushed out by development and higher rents. Some amazing stuff that had been piling up in basements for 100 years was disposed of as "property never called for," forgotten by any succeeding generations. (Some peers were lazy and left their coronation garb there all the time so it was handy "whenever.")

From a Scottish tailor, to fever swamps, to a London tailor's basement, to New England. THERE is a story of Empire!

Thanks very much! This is just incredible. :beer: Rick

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Just a note on the Defence Medal - West African service actually DID count towards it. "British Battles and Medals" by Major L.L. Gordon (if you only ever own one book on British campaign medals - this should be the one) states that:"Service in the United Kingdom Forces in West Africa, Palestine, and India would count for the award of this medal...". I'll I'm trying to confirm at the moment is if the RWAFF were considered "United Kingdom Forces" and if so then he certainly qualifies for it. If not then you're right, it was not an are subject to enemy attack.

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