M16 Austrian Style

[Jason]

Since I'm playing with the camera tonight, I decided to get some decent shots of my only piece of headgear. Thanks have to go to my long-suffering girlfriend for holding the beast.

Its a nice one, all the liner is complete with pads and chin strap.

cheers

Jason

[Jason]

front

[Jason]

inside

[Jason]

"A" stamp on the top of the helmet. Can anyone shed any light on this?

cheers

Jason

[joe campbell]

sorry, jason: can't help you with the A,

but you've got a VERY nice example there.

thanks for the photos!

joe

[Jason]

Thanks for your kind comment Joe. Still looking for a nice pickelhaube to go with this!

cheers

Jason

[Hun Helmet]

Great example. One of the best I've seen in fact. That is worth quite a bit. I settled for a refurbished Austrian example.

Mike

[Jason]

Thanks Mike. I was offered a nice M-18 single decal at the same time for less money than this one, but passed on it!

In your opinion what do you think this one may be worth?

cheers Jason

[Hun Helmet]

Thanks Mike. I was offered a nice M-18 single decal at the same time for less money than this one, but passed on it!

In your opinion what do you think this one may be worth?

cheers Jason

Assuming it's all original they go for over 1000 USD all the time. On second look I don't know about that liner.

The pads should be the same as the german M17 with gromets in them for the tie string. Have an expert look at it. Rest of it looks fine.

Mike

[Jason]

Thanks Mike! The fellow I picked it up from specialized in headgear, mainly helmets and peaked caps, and was quite the expert before he sold the lot, so I'm pretty happy its original, however a second opinion never hurts. I'll have one of the other helmet guys down here have a closer look at it.

cheers

Jason

[Hun Helmet]

Thanks Mike! The fellow I picked it up from specialized in headgear, mainly helmets and peaked caps, and was quite the expert before he sold the lot, so I'm pretty happy its original, however a second opinion never hurts. I'll have one of the other helmet guys down here have a closer look at it.

cheers

Jason

Right. I know that Austran helmet pads had the gromets and used the white leather however that does not mean they also did not use another set up as well.

Mike

[Chip]

I think I can see the metal grommets. Looks 100% to me. Very nice.

Chip

[Tony]

Jason,

I think you did the right thing passing on the single decal, complete Austrian helmets are quite rare or at least they are in Germany.

My Austrian lid has a P on the dome. I believe the letter stamp has something to do with the steel manufacturer's batch or press shop batch number.

Tony

[Daniel Murphy]

That is a great condition helmet! You have a right to be proud of it. This makes me want to pull my camo out and show it off.

Dan Murphy

[Jason]

Thanks for the nice comments gentlemen. At the time I only bought it because I wanted at least one example of an Imperial lid, German or Austrian it didn't really matter! I suppose I should tell you how much it set me back.....all of $450AU.

Thanks for the advice on the "A" stamp Tony, I had a feeling it may have been a batch number of some kind. There's also a very faint square ink stamp inside the apron, and another faint size stamp which I think is 64. I heard somewhere that the majority of these helmets were dumped after the war, can anyone confirm this?

Come on Dan....don't keep us in suspense! Show us your camo!!

cheers

Jason

[Hun Helmet]

Thanks for the nice comments gentlemen. At the time I only bought it because I wanted at least one example of an Imperial lid, German or Austrian it didn't really matter! I suppose I should tell you how much it set me back.....all of $450AU.

Thanks for the advice on the "A" stamp Tony, I had a feeling it may have been a batch number of some kind. There's also a very faint square ink stamp inside the apron, and another faint size stamp which I think is 64. I heard somewhere that the majority of these helmets were dumped after the war, can anyone confirm this?

Come on Dan....don't keep us in suspense! Show us your camo!!

cheers

Jason

What do you mean dumped after the war? I know the Nazis took a lot of them for transitionals.

Now I want to bring up an oddity. Your helmet is inked as a size 64 I assume? Mine is stamped a size 64 and just like your helmet mine has the same air vent lugs. They are not stepped, the are what you would only find on a German size 66 or better.

I asked Ken at german helmets inc. about this and he drew a blank. Had no idea. Anyone shed any light on this?

Mike

[Les]

What do you mean dumped after the war? I know the Nazis took a lot of them for transitionals.

Now I want to bring up an oddity. Your helmet is inked as a size 64 I assume? Mine is stamped a size 64 and just like your helmet mine has the same air vent lugs. They are not stepped, the are what you would only find on a German size 66 or better.

I asked Ken at german helmets inc. about this and he drew a blank. Had no idea. Anyone shed any light on this?

Mike

Mike,

The "step" is used to create a specific space for the attachment of a one-size-fits-all "Stirnpanzer" or brow plate to any of the mid to later war German/Austrian/Hungarian WWI helmets, with the exception of the Austrian made Berndorfer. The smaller the helmet size, the large the "step" is so the distance between the contact points on the brow plate and helmet remains constant. A size 66 or 68 helmet doesn't have the step. A size 64 has a small one, and the "largest" step of all is found on a size 60.

An aside on Austrian helmets in the US. They are relatively common in Pennsylvania and Ohio, because American national guard units from those two states found themselves up against Austrian troops first near the St. Mihiel sector, a few weeks later in the Meuse-Argonne, and then during the last days of the war, US units rotated out of the Meuse-Argonne were sent back to the St. Mihiel sector to "hold the line" and were back in contact with Austro-Hungarian troops ----again.

The Austrians capitaulated on November 4, 1918, a week before the Germans did. Austrian units on the western front simply dropped much of their gear and headed for the rear, and American troops finding "dumped" helmets and field gear were less than hesitant about picking up easily acquired souvenirs that wound up back in their home towns, and states they came from.

I had numerous Austrian, and "Hungarian" variant helmets, with and without camo patterns. Prices vary, however, there is a considerable market in Italy for Austrian helmets, and those in prime condition with factory ink acceptance stamps are usually snapped up by the Italian collectors and dealers.

Prices on these? I try to avoid saying some one else's item is worth "x" amount. Value or price is a highly subject matter in many cases. Instead of putting a price tag on yours, I'd say it was a good mid-range piece, that is a solid example of what an Austrian helmet looks like, but doesn't show some of the more unual features often found on other examples (for instance the use of colored gingham or other fabrics for the "pillow" holders, and cloth pockets. Some of the materials used on Austrian helmets can get downright bizarre.

Les

[Hun Helmet]

Mike,

The "step" is used to create a specific space for the attachment of a one-size-fits-all "Stirnpanzer" or brow plate to any of the mid to later war German/Austrian/Hungarian WWI helmets, with the exception of the Austrian made Berndorfer. The smaller the helmet size, the large the "step" is so the distance between the contact points on the brow plate and helmet remains constant. A size 66 or 68 helmet doesn't have the step. A size 64 has a small one, and the "largest" step of all is found on a size 60.

An aside on Austrian helmets in the US. They are relatively common in Pennsylvania and Ohio, because American national guard units from those two states found themselves up against Austrian troops first near the St. Mihiel sector, a few weeks later in the Meuse-Argonne, and then during the last days of the war, US units rotated out of the Meuse-Argonne were sent back to the St. Mihiel sector to "hold the line" and were back in contact with Austro-Hungarian troops ----again.

The Austrians capitaulated on November 4, 1918, a week before the Germans did. Austrian units on the western front simply dropped much of their gear and headed for the rear, and American troops finding "dumped" helmets and field gear were less than hesitant about picking up easily acquired souvenirs that wound up back in their home towns, and states they came from.

I had numerous Austrian, and "Hungarian" variant helmets, with and without camo patterns. Prices vary, however, there is a considerable market in Italy for Austrian helmets, and those in prime condition with factory ink acceptance stamps are usually snapped up by the Italian collectors and dealers.

Prices on these? I try to avoid saying some one else's item is worth "x" amount. Value or price is a highly subject matter in many cases. Instead of putting a price tag on yours, I'd say it was a good mid-range piece, that is a solid example of what an Austrian helmet looks like, but doesn't show some of the more unual features often found on other examples (for instance the use of colored gingham or other fabrics for the "pillow" holders, and cloth pockets. Some of the materials used on Austrian helmets can get downright bizarre.

Les

Hi Les,

I know what the air vent lugs are also used for, the extra frontal armor plate. But what I don't understand is my size 64 Austrian lid has the lugs normally found on the size 66 or larger helmets. I thought mine had been replaced by the wrong sized lugs when the nazi's made it a transitional helmet but now I see another original helmet with the same lug set up. Any idea why the Austrians would do this? Was their armor plates different then the Germans? I think they were. This can be the only explanation?

Mike

[Les]

Hi Les,

I know what the air vent lugs are also used for, the extra frontal armor plate. But what I don't understand is my size 64 Austrian lid has the lugs normally found on the size 66 or larger helmets. I thought mine had been replaced by the wrong sized lugs when the nazi's made it a transitional helmet but now I see another original helmet with the same lug set up. Any idea why the Austrians would do this? Was their armor plates different then the Germans? I think they were. This can be the only explanation?

Mike

Mike,

Austrian and German brow plates are all the same size; there's no difference and a German plate can fit an Austrian helmet, or vice versa. The Austrian plates have cloth straps (the German ones are usually leather) and other than the paint color (Austrians used brown to match the helmet), Austrian plates sometimes turn up with a cloth glued or pasted on the front surface of the plate.

Austrian helmet lugs are the same as the German ones, and if there is any difference, the helmet was probably repaired at a later date. If you check ebay for example, replacement lugs (one type only) are available for sale these days. I've come aross German helmets with one or both lugs missing, and where lugs have been replaced.

Les

[Hun Helmet]

Mike,

Austrian and German brow plates are all the same size; there's no difference and a German plate can fit an Austrian helmet, or vice versa. The Austrian plates have cloth straps (the German ones are usually leather) and other than the paint color (Austrians used brown to match the helmet), Austrian plates sometimes turn up with a cloth glued or pasted on the front surface of the plate.

Austrian helmet lugs are the same as the German ones, and if there is any difference, the helmet was probably repaired at a later date. If you check ebay for example, replacement lugs (one type only) are available for sale these days. I've come aross German helmets with one or both lugs missing, and where lugs have been replaced.

Les

Les,

I know what you are saying. I am sure my air went lugs were installed no latter then WWII, if they were not done during WWI. But the other fellow has a size 64 like mine with lugs that are not stepped. And they should be for a size 64. You find the straight lugs with no step on the size 66 or larger.

I chalked it up to my vents being replaced post war by the Germans as frontal plates did not seem to matter after Trench warfare was obsolete but then I see another helmet inked as a size 64 just like mine with lugs that appear to be original to the helmet in great war configuration.

I suppose they might have run out of the stepped lugs and used what they had on hand but I'd think if it would cause problems with using the frontal plate they might be rejected by QC.

Mike