Chris Boonzaier

Over the years I have heard (and used) all possible variations Patents, Award documents, award certificates, Formal award document, preliminary award documents, Ausweis, .... but basically, it is always the same thing, a piece of paper confirming the Soldier recieved the Iron Cross. Maybe in 1870 there were patent for officer, and Besitzeugnis for ORs... but in 14-18 there was no difference. The decree by the Kaiser in 1918 that any document issued by an authority confirming the award should be seen as the final Besitzzeugnis (realising that unlike 1870 there was not going to be anyone issuing nice documents) basically gives the same status to an elabrorately printed document from the Alpenkorps and to a Soldbuch sized hand written page confirming the award. According to the Kaiser, both of these should be considered the besitzzeugnis... I have been looking for a phrase that "does it" for me... I have heard all the arguments over the years "THAT is not a certificate, that is a document"... "That is a preliminary award document, its worth less than a formal one...".... enough! Over the years we have been trying to cram round English pegs into square german holes when it comes to finding English equivalents for German names. I am tending towards using "Proof of Entitlement" for Besitzzeugnis... (and dropping everything else, other than the informal catchall of "doc" or "award doc") My reasoning is... the Besitzzeugnis is a written proof that the soldier is entitled to have/wear the iron cross... and the kaiser gave all documents this status in his decree.... ergo... all documents issued are a Besitzzeugnis. What do you guys think?

Does anyone know who signed the EK2 doc ? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/22418-an-excited-telegram/?hl=mensch Weilisch? thanks+ Chris

A guy I know bought one, some Austrian dealers identified it as Austrian for him. There must have been a few on the market at the same time, still, for EUR143 you cant go wrong.....

That is an interesting piece indeed.... I wonder why they did not simply print the whole thing if they were going to print the eagle. A great backdrop to the collecting room!!

Here is a pic stolen from the web, at the bottom is an Erfurt a.A. also with the dip in the handel. (I dont want to appear rechthaberisch, but find the details interesting)

I have just been reading an interesting article. There is no mention of the specific bayonet types, but he does mention the change from a.A. to n.A., i.e how the a.A. were refurbished into n.A. bayonets The a.A. had wooden grips a bit rounded on the sides along the top.... when a factory put the Schutzblech on to change it to a n.A., they changed the wooden grips for new ones that were flat along the top, this way they would be flush with the Schutzblech. The Factory would them also grind off the "ears". When the Army in the field did the changes they usually just added a Schutzblech, often leaving the old grips and ears on the bayonet. I assume that means they had to fit the Schutzblech to the grips that were already on the bayonet. In the top bayonet in post 14 you can see a slight concave dip along the spine of the Erfurt 1915, and the Schutzblech is rounded on the side to fit the old a.A. grips that are still on... If one had a factory refurbished bayonet with straight wooden grips (as in the bottom one in post 14) you would not be able to see the slight concave dip in the spine as it would be hidden by the grips and Schutzblech... Erfurt had dips in their 84/98aA as well... maybe it is a throwback to this? Photos to follow... I hate to admit it, but I am really becoming interesting in items that have just been laying in a box up until now :-(

Hi, Check out the 1915 Erfurt without the plate (Bottom one in post 12) and the 1915 Erfurt at the top in post 14 (with the plate). Both have the exact same bend, only the one has the plate (which in turn is formed to follow the curve). There is also little chance, if it had been bent using it as a hammer, that it would still fit on a rifle, which it does, or that the wood would not have split. I will get some side by side photos done and post them. Best Chris

We need to see behind the Hindy methinks

bei Rote Kreuz

Hi Mark, unless you turn up his Militärpass, zero i am afraid. By the way, i saw some pics of a nice ERN made WW1 combat knife... I wonder if he got a discount on those ;-)

Mehlich and Bayard

Couple more differences between the Mehlich and "normal" one

The top is maker BK, I think its called a S14 bayonet? The next one is a 1915 variation by Mehlich A.G. Berlin, the blade is different and the bottom part of the guard is a feww mm bigger, also note the round drainage hole.... 3rd is Bog standard 4th is a cooperation between Hammesfahr in Solingen and the bayard company in Belgium...

Here are some that would look very similar on a period Photo

The old leather one has luckily hardly shrunk....

This much personality just does not exist with WW2 bayonets....

Although made in the industrial age, these WW1 bayonets are still artisanal in a way... they have "personality" that WW2 ones dont... just see the small differences.....

There seems to be a lot out there of late... what is your favourite and why? Thanks Chris

I asked Regimentals how they identified the piping and cuffs as Being Bavarian ScHwerer Reiter, apparenly it is from a Photo in the Kraus book with the stuff from the bavarian archive... does anyone have one of these? Is it worth getting? Thanks CHRIS

That is indeed a head scratcher... A nice piece though

Hi, I can`t comment on those, badges that we accepted with no problem 10 years ago are now considered or proved to be bad. Am glad I kept out of Flight Badges ;-)

no kidding! with the weight of the rounds you probably need 2 guys checking the feed to make sure the rounds are not falling out. The stress on the canvas must have been terrific...

Hi guys, thanks, added questions... if a simplified M07, what is a regular one? Is it M16 because its Bavarian? I am still really curious to see a pic of one of these coats, do you know of any? I really learned something about the unfinished ends! Penny drops... of course it is logical that if they are nit finished they are probably to be sewn in, and if they are to be sewn in, probably Bavarian... so I will stop grinding my teetch and being POed that they did not have the ends finished :-))

I would kill for one of those tunics!!

Here is Simon Kraus....