Bilco

Jim, This is all very interesting. I had assumed the existence of a Type 1 only on the basis of seeing it in Laslo. He shows a photograph of one, but I don't know the source of his photos - I don't have the book. He doesn't seem to mention the Type I in the description of the designing and production of the US vic - could it have been a pre-production model, or a short-lived early production version like the Type 1 Great Britain vic? Would it be possible for you and Rob to post a photo or two of your Type 1s to give a better idea of the appearance, and the pointers to look out for in detecting modern repros? Bill

Hi Jim, Sorry about the rampant thread creep - Grandpa has been in my mind because of Rememberance Day. I'll be very interested to see what the results of your research into the reality of the Type 1. As far as I can see there hasn't been one posted on this Forum - the closest was a bevelled-lug version here http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/49863-american-us-victory-medals/ Best wishes, Bill

Rob, Jim, Many thanks for your comments on the Type 1 - it's obviously a subject fraught with pitfalls for the unwary. I was quite surpirised to see four of them on e-bay looking very similar, but I had thought the one with the frayed ribbon was good as it is with a reputable dealer. Just goes to show how you can be caught out when someone has taken a good but common Type 2 and substituted the modern copy for the medal. Jim, I found my grandfather's grave in Brisbane in 2009 - I was the first one of his family to visit it, as his wife and daughters were back in England when he died. He last saw them in January 1942, when they were evacuated from Singapore, and he and his wife had finally made contact by letter the month before he died. My mother, his elder daughter, married my father in the November. My father had also been in Singapore with the RAF and, like my grandfather, managed to get away just ahead of the invading Japanese. My grandfather had joined the Navy as a boy of 14 in 1907, served through WW1 and retired in 1937. He rejoined the Navy in 1938 and was sent out to Singapore. He and a couple of other Naval officers stole a boat rather than surrender, and sailed across to Java, being bombed and machinegunned en route. He was picked up and taken to Australia. I have to admit to a dampness of the eye and tightness of the throat when I stood in front of his CWGC gravestone. Bill

Hi Gents, Pictures of the reverse: Close-ups: Looks OK to my uneducated eye - any comments welcome. Bill

Hi Gents, Well, having given up on the Type 1, I've just acquired this Type 2 with 2 clasps: Close-up of obverse .... ... and the clasps The Meuse - Argonne clasp has spacer pieces. Reverse pics in a separate posting. Bill

OK - Ancestry turns up just one record for this man: Kriegsranglisten und -stammrollen des Königreichs Bayern, 1. Weltkrieg 1914-1918 Bavaria, Germany, WWI Personnel Rosters, 1914-1918 about Franz Xaver Biechl Name: Franz Xaver Biechl Birth Date: 10 Nov 1881 Birth Place: Wotting Lohhirchen (Mühldorf A. Bayern (Bavaria)) Combat Arm: Infanterie Type of Unit: Reserve-Infanterie-Regimenter Unit: Bayer. Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 2 (München) Volume: 2454. Kriegstammrolle: Bd. 1 Bill

Hi Chris, Would this be your man: Kriegsranglisten und -stammrollen des Königreichs Bayern, 1. Weltkrieg 1914-1918 Bavaria, Germany, WWI Personnel Rosters, 1914-1918 about Lorenz Biechl Name: Lorenz Biechl Birth Date: 3 Jul 1895 Combat Arm: Infanterie Type of Unit: Ersatztruppenteile der Infanterie-Regimenter Unit: II Ersatz-Bataillon/2. bayer. Inf. Regt. (München) Volume: 4502. Gesamt-Renner There are several sets of records for him, but this unit seems to fit. Bill

Hi Jim, Oh dear! I wonder if they know. It's also on e-bay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inter-Allied-Victory-Medal-U-S-Submarine-bar-s1881-/350467174464?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item519978b040 where they give their policy on not offering " copies, replicas or restrikes". Please enlighten me on what you see that shows it up as a modern repro - I desperately need this sort of knowledge! Bill

Hi Jim, Many thanks for your comments. I think the 2 dubious UK items come from the same source as the 2 US ones - http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2c5d008eb8 The description shows them as new, and the price asked is a bit of a give-away. The item that does look good http://www.picardyan...6aid%3DS1959%26 is on a completely different level as far as price is concerned, although the 'Submarine' clasp may also have something to do with it! Oh well, I'll just have to dream for a while longer. Bill

Hi Gents, A question about the US Official Type 1, "wire-loop" version. I've seen 5 of these for sale in the last day or two, one has an old, ragged ribbon and a bit of a patina, while the others, 2 in UK and 2 in the US, look pristine - medal, ribbon and pin bar (none of them have clasps). Are these 4 likely to be fakes or modern repros? Was the "wire-loop" version much less common, and so worth faking? I'd really like to have this version, but don't want to be ripped off! Bill

HI Gents, My latest acquisition - the Belgian Unofficial Type 3 Uniface Close-up of the obverse: Designer's name not shown: Close-up of reverse: The planchet is 36.5mm diameter. I was surprised at how thin it is - 1mm at the 3 o'clock, and 2mm over the lady's sticky-out bits. Still, as it was meant to be a cheap, temporary expedient until the official one came out, I suppose it didn't need to be too thick. In Lazlo it's included under Belgium, but am I right in thinking it was made for the French market? On this web site http://www.medailles...medailledb.html it's shown under France. Bill

Is it the one mentioned here? http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/corrections/purge_army.html Bill

Hi TS - You may like some of the army humour on this web site about WW1 - shows up some differences between the Officers and ORs http://www.firstworl...s/satirical.htm On officers' accents - there was and is a tendedncy for public school chaps to use the "long A" - class pronounced "clarss" and past as "parst". The alternative is to say them "short". My first pilot was ex-public school and used to twit me about my "short As" (not my height). We used to quote to each other the phrase "Get aft abaft the after mast you daft bastard" or as he would say "Get arft abarft the arfter marst you darft barstard". This accent was mocked by the ORs who called officers "orfficers". Bill

TS - do you know the poetry of Rudyard Kipling, who knew India well. He has a few lines about an expensively educated (public school) young officer being killed by a Pathan with a cheap rifle - A scrimmage in a Border Station - A canter down some dark defile - Two thousand pounds of education Drops to a ten-rupee jezail – Kipling has lots of good stuff about the Army in India and later - e was born in India - see http://www.kipling.org.uk/kip_fra.htm His poetry fell out of favour as being too Jingoistic - at least, until his son was killed in the First World War, a young subaltern. Bill

Maybe the dropped letter referred to is the final 'g' - as in "Huntin', shootin', and fishin'" ? Bill

Tim - Sorry to hear that you're leaving the GMIC. Thank you for setting up this Interallied Victory Medal section as a separate part of the Forum, and for your kind and helpful replies to my postings. Your posts and photos will remain a useful resource for everyone. Best wishes, Bill

Just realized this article is by GMIC member Gunner 1 - see posts 5 - 11 on this thread! I may be slow, but I get there in the end. Bill

I've been following up a reference I found while surfing to an article on the Type 1 British vic, and have just received the September 2009 issue of the Journal of the Orders and Medals Research Society, which has the article in it. The piece is by Dr Richard Flory and runs to 8 pages, giving a very detailed history of the background to the move from the Type 1 to the Type 2. If anyone is interested in getting a copy, they can be bought from Peter Helmore, POBox 1233, High Wycombe, HP11 9BW, UK, for £5 including postage within the UK. I'm not a member of the OMRS. Bill

Hi Lambert - A real eye-opener to see so many vics that are faked! Even the Italian Sacchini - the designer and manufacturer names look as if they are impressed, quite unlike any that I've seen before. And yet he seems to have an excellent approval rating. Buyer beware! Bill

Hi Gents - yes, I'm back on the Italian vics again! My latest acquisition - an Official Type 4, thanks to GMIC member Noor who sold it to me. Obverse Reverse No maker's name, and dates MCMXIV - MCMXVIII. Planchet diameter 36mm, thickness 2mm. Any comments welcome. Bill

Hi Alf - I'm told that the Marche aux Puces de Vanves - flea market at the Porte de Vanves - is good for medals. Open on Saturday and Sunday. Bill

Hi Lambert - a nice medal, and great photos, bringing out all the little details. You have the same long name version of the L&C that I have, with the bottom of the S of Castelli horizontal rather than sloping down to the left, and the final L and I rather crammed in at the end. Bill

Hi Tim - Many thanks for your opinion on my latest US vic. To highlight the finish I've photographed my two examples side by side: Obverse Reverse It looks like my Navy one has similar loss of the gold finish to yours, just on the upper left area of the obverse. From remarks on earlier postings about the US issue I'm not sure if the gold finish was a paint or some form of anodizing, but I guess that the durability of the finish is affected by the surface of the underlaying metal. So, if there is moisture or oil from handling on the metal, the gold finish won't adhere so well. Or perhaps the finish is affected by the atmosphere the medal is kept in over the years. My new example doesn't seem to have any gold on the medal or the clasp! Bill

The planchet is 36mm across, and 2mm thick at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. Bill

Hi Gents - I posted pics of my US vic with the Navy bar 'Grand Fleet' in post #19. I've just acquired another US vic with the Army sector bar 'France', and there are some interesting differences that I'd appreciate comments on. First the pictures: Obverse Reverse Close-up of the France bar The colour of this medal is patinated bronze, while the one in posting #19 has a gold finish that has worn off the high points, and the left side of the obverse has lost some of the gold surface. The suspension on the new medal has the same bevelled knob as the other, but it doesn't have the thick ring of solder attaching it to the planchet - in fact it looks rather fragile in comparison. The 'France' bar matches the colour of the new medal, and has no markings on the back strap. It has pulled the edges of the ribbon in, and I found that the ribbon is 39mm wide. The ribbon on the earlier medal is 36mm wide, hence the pulling in, so it looks like the ribbon is a replacement - the British ribbon is 39mm wide. I guess the differences are down to different manufacturers. I notice that both medals have the name FRAZER in tiny raised letters on the right side of the tump that Victory is standing on - Laslo gives James Frazer as the designer, but doesn't seem to mention that the name is on the medal. Any comments welcome. Bill