Kriegsmarine Admiral

He was promoted to Vizeadmiral on 13 September 1906. He was awarded the RSt2 on 17 October 1892 while he was a Korvettenkapitän. He was awarded the Stern to his RSt2 on 24 September 1897 while he was a Kapitän zur See. I couldn't find anything on him being awarded the St. Stanislaus 3rd Class. The only 3 awards he was awarded after he was promoted to Vizeadmiral were the RAO2mEKruSt, KO1 and GkMG.

Hello Sandro, I'm quite sure there was a Breast Star of the 2nd Class. The 2nd Class could have been awarded with or without the Star. The Rangliste do make this distinction. Below is Gustav Schmidt's entry in the 1909 Rangliste. You can clearly see the "RSt2" has the addition "mSt" (mit dem Stern). That's why it's odd he would wear the 3rd? Class on his medal bar and also the Breast Star of the 2nd Class. I can find no indication he was awarded the 3rd Class of the St. Stanislaus. Only the 2nd Class in 1892 with the addition of the Star in 1897. Regards, Karlo

Would that be the Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee Medal from 1897? In 1897 Schmidt was Commandant of the Panzerschiff "König Wilhelm". And on Wikipedia it says: "On 26 June [1897], she ["König Wilhelm"] represented Germany at the Fleet Review for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee." It would make sense he was awarded the medal then. Regarding the St. Stanislaus. How do you know that the second to last medal (covered by the Jubilee Medal) is the St. Stanislaus? And what class would be worn on the medal bar, 3rd? This doesn't make sense, because on the full photo you can see he is wearing the Breast Star of the St. Stanislaus 2nd Class he was awarded (which is confirmed by the Rangliste).

Thank you guys!

His list of awards, courtesy of my friend from another forum: - EK 2. Klasse - EK 1. Klasse - Königl. Bayerischer Militär-Verdienstorden 4. Klasse mit Schwertern - Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz - Ritterkreuz des Königl. Württembergischer Militär-Verdienstorden - Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse mit Schwertern des Königl. Württembergischer Friedrichs-Orden - Grossherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militär-Verdienstkreuz 2. Klasse - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer - Dienstauszeichnung 1.-4. Klasse - Kaiserl. Japanischer Orden von der aufgehenden Sonne 1. Klasse am grossen Band Also, the photo of him wearing the Grand Cross of the Orden von der aufgehenden Sonne.

On an old thread (https://gmic.co.uk/topic/27173-henry-the-lion-commander-cross-pic/) Rick said that during WW1 Schmidt von Schwind was awarded the "BrH" (he was awarded the "BrH2b": Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Braunschweigischen Ordens Heinrichs des Löwen). I think he made a typo and he instead meant Schmidt von Schwind was awarded the "BrKr" (Braunschweigisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz), because he already listed the "BrH2b" on his list of awards. However, "BrKr" is not listed for him in the 1918 Rangliste. I think this photo of Schmidt von Schwind holds the answer. See the 3rd medal (after the EK2 and OFA2). To me, it looks like the Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse (based on the colour and shape and also the ribbon). Or, like Rick probably meant, this could be the Braunschweigisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz II. Klasse. Please tell me what do you think. Is it the MMV2 or BrKr2? Thanks!

Please help me ID/confirm the awards on his medal bar: - Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande - Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz - Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer (not sure) - China-Denkmünze (Bronze or Stahl?) OR Kolonial-Denkmünze ??? - Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897 - something hidden beneath the Centenarmedaille and the last medal ??? - ??? Here is the list of his awards I compiled: -Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden I. Klasse -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub, Krone und mit dem Stern (19. 01. 1908) -Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden II. Klasse mit dem Stern (17. 01. 1904) -Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer -Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897 -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden III. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse -Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden III. Klasse -Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz -Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande -Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Braunschweigischen Ordens Heinrichs des Löwen -Großkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens -Komturkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens -Ehrenkomturkreuz des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig -Kommandeurkreuz des Kaiserlichen Japanischen Ordens von der Aufgehenden Sonne -Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus -Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Niederländischen Ordens von Oranien-Nassau mit Schwertern -Kommandeurkreuz I. Klasse des Königlich Norwegischen Ordens des heiligen Olaf -Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden II. Klasse mit dem Stern -Kommandeurkreuz I. Klasse des Königlich Schwedischen Schwertordens Thanks!

I'm afraid that, without seeing the full photo of the breast star, we can only guess what it is. Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischer Hausorden is a good guess, but it could also be the Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstorden des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig, for example. Your list of decorations is correct. I wonder, where did you find the information about his awards? I have a Facebook page called "German Admirals 1849-1945" where I posted his list of awards (although in English). Did you perhaps use that info? Because I identified the Kyffhäuser-Denkmünze für 1914/18 and the Medaille „Für Tapferkeit im Weltkrieg 1914/18“ des Bundes Deutscher Marine-Vereine from his medal bar. Since these are un-official awards, you wouldn't find them listed anyhwere in the Rangliste. Regards

Is the last medal on his medal bar (circled red) the Golden Liakat Medal with Swords? Thanks!

No problem. Regarding his awards. I can add: - Königlich Norwegischer Orden des heiligen Olaf, Kommandeurkreuz 2. Klasse - China-Denkmünze in Bronze - Kaiserlich Russische China-Denkmünze in Silber The rest of your list is correct.

Since the photo was taken post-WW1 the Breast Star can't be the Sankt-Stanislaus-Orden 2nd Class. Also, the 2nd Class was awarded either without the Star or with the Star. The Rangliste always makes this distinction. Here is a photo of Borckenhagen.

These are great. Thank you! Regards Karlo

I understand. Thank you once again. Regards Karlo

I see. But could you post the full photo again in better quality like this cut out? The full photo is a bit grey and blurry.

Sandro, thank you very much for this! You have some great photos in your collection! It's unfortunate not all admirals on the photos are named. I will try and ID the ones I recognize. Do I have your permission to post these photos on other forums, in hopes someone will be able to help us ID them? Please let me know. Regards P.S. Could you please repost this one (below) so the whole photo is visible?

Here you are.

Hello Sandro. Today I was compiling the list of awards of Vizeadmiral Wilhelm Schack. On his portrait photo we can see he was awarded the Honour Grand Cross of the Oldenburg House and Merit Order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig. See the sash, circled breast star and cross at the end of the sash. In my opinion, Char. Vizeadmiral Hermann Alberts that we discussed above, is wearing the same sash and breast star as Schack. I believe that Alberts is then also wearing the Honour Grand Cross of the Oldenburg House and Merit Order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig and not the GK des M-S Greiffenordens like you suggested before. The sashes look exactly the same in black and white. Do you agree? Regards

If he had the Star of the St. Stanislaus Order, the Rangliste would say "RSt2mSt". Like you say, it's very unlikely (I would dare say even impossible) he was awarded the Star during WW1. My source for the Hohenzollern Hausorden Komtur with swords is the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste. You can also see it on the photo, top medal around the neck. There is no indication he also had the Star of this order, and I doubt that's the Star visible on the photo. I am 100% sure it's a photo and not a composite. Sure, the medals mounted look a little odd, but I guess that was his personal preference. By the way, the photo was for sure taken after WW1, because you can see he mounted two un-official veteran organization's medals. The 5th medal is the War Commemorative Medal 1914/1918 of the Kyffhäuser Union and the 6th medal is the Commemorative Medal of the Union of German Naval Veterans Associations.

The Norwegian Order of St. Olaf was usually awarded to German Admirals before the outbreak of WW1. I don't think that's the breast star Rogge is wearing. Other orders you mention are even more less likely. I think we won't be able to determine what the breast star is without seeing the full photo of the star. Unfortunately... Anyways, thank you to everyone for their help regarding this.

Oh, you mean Raeder. Yes, he was awarded the Imperial Chinese Order of the Double Dragon 3rd Class, 2nd Grade on 10 October 1898. But I never saw him wear it. Either on the medal bar or ribbon bar. Sorry.

Once again, I kindly ask for help regarding the two colonial medals that are visible on the medal bar. The photos are not the best, but I hope they will help at least a little bit. Here is some info about his career that might me useful in determining what the medals are: - First Officer, Torpedo Training Ship "Blücher" (01 October 1896-30 September 1898) - First Officer, Battleship "Wörth" (01 October 1898-30 September 1899) - Torpedo Director, Imperial Shipyard Kiel (01 October 1899-27 September 1902) - Commandant, Light Cruiser "Niobe" (28 September 1902-06 April 1903; 30 June 1903-30 September 1903) - Journey Home from St. Thomas/Central America (01 October 1903-30 October 1903) - Commandant, Light Cruiser "Gazelle" (31 October 1903-03 August 1904) My guess for the second medal on the medal bar is: China-Denkmünze in Stahl (China Medal in Steel - for non-active participants) Reason: During the Boxer Rebellion (2 November 1899 – 7 September 1901) he was the Torpedo Director at the Imperial Shipyard in Kiel and didn't actively participate. Also, the ribbon above the medal looks like the ribbon of the China Medal (yellow stripe in the middle and black stripes at the edges). My guess for the third medal on the medal bar is: Kolonial-Denkmünze (Colonial Medal), no Clasps visible above it. Reason: While he was the Commandant of the "Niobe", we know he was posted somewhere in Central America, because we can see he was returning to Germany from St. Thomas. It would appear that he didn't participate in the Venezuelan crisis of 1902–1903. The following info from Wikipedia: "The Navy initially planned on sending "Niobe" to reinforce the squadron participating in the naval blockade of Venezuela of 1902–1903, but the incident concluded before she could be sent. Instead, on 1 March, she joined the cruisers of I Scouting Group for her second trip to Norway." That's why he doesn't have the „Venezuela 1902/03“ Clasp above the Colonial Medal. The second reason is the ribbon above this medal that seems to have vertical lines (like the Colonial Medal), and not horizontal lines like the Südwestafrika-Denkmünze (South West Africa Medal). First medal on the medal bar is the Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz, the fourth is the Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897 and the last one is the Portugiesischen Ritterorden von Avis. Please tell me what you think. For anyone interested, here is the list of his awards I compiled so far: -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub (22. 01. 1911) -Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse mit dem Stern (21. 01. 1912) -Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897 -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse -Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz -Ehrenoffizierskreuz des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig -Offizierskreuz des Portugiesischen Ritterordens von Avis -Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden 2. Klasse mit dem Stern Many thanks in advance for any help!

Sorry, I don't understand your question. Perhaps the translation isn't correct?

After I compile the lists of awards of all the Imperial (and other periods, for example Reichsmarine and pre-1871) admirals, I intend to share it. That's my ultimate goal. I did the same thing with Kriegsmarine Admirals. Over on the Axis History Forum I have a thread called "Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals" where I posted photos and lists of awards of every single Kriegsmarine Admiral. That was never done before (the lists of awards part I mean). Feel free to check it out: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341 That is the main reason why I'm asking for help with awards of Imperial admirals on this forum. I think this forum has a lot of people who can help me with that kind of stuff, and I was not wrong so far. And when I'm finished I want to post the lists on this forum, so anyone interested will be able to look it up. It's just that it takes time and effort to compile those lists. Currently I'm on the letter "S" of the alphabet. I am upset because you questioned my contribution to this forum, and honestly I feel offended. You implied I was not "gentlemanly" enough because I didn't thank Markus. I corrected my mistake. And this was the only time I didn't thank someone for helping me. I always do, because it means a lot to me when members of this or other forums help me. I agree that we should move on. I don't want this "incident" to get in the way of future cooperation. Regards

I didn't know that he compiled the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste. I was given this list by another member of the forum. It's my bad then, and I apologize for my mistake. My badge says I'm an active contributor on this forum. I don't care what other people think "active contribution" means. Sandro implied I only ask for help, while I give nothing in return. That's simply not true. Feel free to check my posting history, and you will see plenty of instances where I also helped and answered other people's questions. Regardless what you think, "asking questions" does indeed contribute to this forum. It opens new topics for discussion, and perhaps sparks the interest of other people. If we don't ask questions, then what's the point of having a forum like this? I don't intend to quarrel further regarding this, and I won't be responding to any more of these kind of statements. If you can't help me with the question I originally asked on this thread, then please ignore it and move on, but don't attack me and my contribution on this forum. Otherwise, I will ask a moderator to lock this thread. Regards