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Kriegsmarine Admiral

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Posts posted by Kriegsmarine Admiral

  1. Thank you very much Dave. I don't quite understand the part about RAO4 and KO3. Why did he have to return the awards to the State? To me that doesn't make sense. Could you explain this practice in more detail?

    The 1st class of the Turkish award should be the Medal in Gold.

    Thank for that information about the Orden der Eisernen Krone 2. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration. The 2nd Class was worn around the neck, that means he didn't mount it on the photos above. He only mounted the Militär-Verdienstkreuz 3. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration on the medal bar.

    So the Olympia-Ehrenzeichen 2. Klasse was awarded posthumously? Because he died on 04.01.1937

  2. I need some help with Behncke's awards.

    Here is the list I have so far (sources are the 1914 and 1918 Rangliste and photographic evidence):

    -Pour le Mérite am 04.12.1917 als Vizeadmiral und Chef des III. Geschwaders
    -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern
    -Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
    -Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
    -Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
    -Südwestafrika-Denkmünze (Class unknown)
    -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden III. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone
    -Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse
    -Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden II. Klasse
    -Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden III. Klasse
    -Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
    -Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden II. Klasse mit Schwertern
    -Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz
    -Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz I. Klasse
    -Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse
    -Komturkreuz II. Klasse des Königlich Sächsischen Albrechts-Ordens mit Schwertern
    -Marineverwundetenabzeichen in Schwarz (1918)
    -k.u.k. Österreichisches Militär-Verdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration
    -Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

    I have 3 photos where his medal bar is visible. If someone has the 2nd and 3rd photo in better quality, or any other photos of Behncke where his medal/ribbon bar is visible, please post them. Here is my ID of the medal bar:


    - Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

    - Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone

    - Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz

    - Südwestafrika-Denkmünze (Class unknown) (look at the ribbon) ???

    - Another round medal beneath the Südwestafrika-Denkmünze on the first photo ???

    - Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse

    - Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz

    - k.u.k. Österreichisches Militär-Verdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration

    - Kaiserlich Türkische Liakat or Imtiyaz Medaille mit Säbeln ???


    1. Does anyone know which class of the Südwestafrika-Denkmünze did he receive (Bronze or Stahl). Of course if you agree it's the Südwestafrika-Denkmünze in the first place.

    2. What could the other round medal beneath the Südwestafrika-Denkmünze be? Perhaps the Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille?

    3. What is the last medal, Liakat or Imtiyaz. And what class?


    If someone has any additional info I would appreciate it very much. Thanks.




  3. 7 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

    I am not sure if Navy officers received the 1905 jubilee medal. It was the Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army, and the Bavarian regulations published in 1905 do not mention the Navy at all. That said, the 1911 regulations do not mention the Navy either, though they do mention the Schutztruppe. I also have not been able to find any authorizing regulations in the Marine-Verordnungsblatt

    The criteria for awards of Landesorden to Navy personnel are somewhat muddy. Sometimes it seems you had to be a native of the state, but sometimes awards were made to personnel serving on ships "associated" with the state, like the SMS Bayern, SMS München, SMS Nürnberg, etc. for Bavaria. Since jubilee medals are not usually included in rank lists, they are even harder to track unless the regulations are clear. 

    Thank you Dave. But what about Hirth's case? What is the last medal on his medal bar then?

    And do you know if he was a Bavarian native?

  4. 5 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:


    Liut Pod’s 1905 medal and his 70th anniversary medal are the same on the front, who can stand it!

    I'm sorry, I don't understand. Who is Liut Pod? If you are referring to the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille (1905) and Bayerische Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille (1911) I know they look the same. Still, the one Hirth has can be determined by looking at his carrer, he joined the Navy in 1903. That would mean he would be awarded the 1905 medal, if he was a Bavarian native. But I don't know if he was.

    So you agree it's the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille in the last place on his medal bar?

  5. I just found this nice photo of Hirth.

    We can see his medal bar, 4 medals:

    - Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

    - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

    - Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz 

    - ???

    Does anyone recognize the last medal? Pierce told me it could be the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille given it's dimensions. This could easily be confirmed if we knew that Hirth was a Bavarian native. However, he was born in Shanghai, China and I couldn't find any more info regarding his life. He did die in München, so that might be a clue.

    If anyone agrees it is the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille, is it the one from 1905 or the Königlich Bayerische Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille from 1911? Hirth entered service in the Navy in 1903, so I think it could be the 1905 Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille?


    Waldemar Hirth (1).jpg

  6. On 08/02/2019 at 16:57, 922F said:

    Judging mostly by the badge [lowest one, hangs almost beside star] this looks like a civil division set.   Take into consideration my poor eyesight combined with the image size & wash-out, however.   

    Another photo of Begić!

    1 Grand Cross of the Croatian Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir with Star and Swords 

    2 ???

    3 ???

    4 Grand Cross of the Romanian Order of the Crown ???

    5 ???


  7. Thanks Dave! Is there a possibility the Rangliste wasn't wrong about the WF2aX, but that he simply didn't mount the breast star on this particular photo?

    And you agree the second Hanseatenkreuz is the one from Bremen?

    You think it is the China-Denkmünze in Stahl based on the photo? Couldn't it be the Bronze version?

  8. Here is the list of all the possible candidates, all were either Admirale or Char. Admirale and alive on 12 June 1938 when the photo was taken:

    Gustav Bachmann (1860-1943)
    Carl von Coerper (1854-1942)
    Ernst Fritze (1850-1941)
    Gerhard Gerdes (1861-1941)
    Hermann Jacobsen (1859-1943)
    Reinhard Koch (1861-1939)
    Günther von Krosigk (1860-1938)
    Wilhelm von Lans (1861-1947)
    Georg Alexander von Müller (1854-1940)
    Max Rollmann (1857-1942)
    Ehrhardt Schmidt (1863-1946)
    Friedrich Schultz (1865-1945)
    Wilhelm Souchon (1864-1946)

    I am pretty sure it isn't Günther von Krosigk because he died 4 days after (16 June 1938) the photo above was taken.

    We are looking for an Admiral that had a moustache (and beard?), so I think that rules out Georg Alexander von Müller.

    It's also definitely not Erhardt Schmidt or Wilhelm Souchon. Schmidt was stocky and it doesn't resemble Souchon.

    Von Usedom died in 1925, not him.

  9. On 22/11/2017 at 11:22, webr55 said:

    It looks like the silver medal, yes. The one second to last on this bar, which belongs to a forum member (I think): 


    I found this better photo of Ditten. The medal bar is visible nicely. 

    Can we now confirm 100% the last two medals are Erinnerungsmedaille des "Finnischen Freiheitskrieges" 1918 mit Spange and Finnische Tapferkeitsmedaille in Silber?


  10. 28 minutes ago, Antonio Prieto said:

    Yes, I believe that the #1 on the first photo and the breast star on the second photo are the Spanish Order of Naval Merit 2nd Class, white divisionm type 1931-1938

    I can't see the crown in the first picture

    In the second photo I think I see the mural crown, which would correspond to the concession in 1932. This crown would cease to be used in Spain from 1938, moving it through another open royal also known as imperial, which in turn would be used until 1977

    Attached the type of 1931-1938


    Ok, thank you. To be clear, the classes of the 1931-1938 type were: Grand Cross (4th Class), 3rd Class, 2nd Class, 1st Class and Silver Cross? Correct? So the 2nd Class had the Silver Breast Star like on your photo above.

    Do you have any ideas about #3 on the first photo? Is it possible it's the Spanish Order of Military Merit? We can see from his ribbon bar he had it.

  11. Antonio, so you think the #1 on the first photo and the breast star on the second photo are the Spanish Order of Naval Merit 2nd Class? But which type? 1931—1939? If yes, did that class have the breast star in that period?

    So, you have no idea about #3 on the first photo?

  12. On the first photo, Number 2 is the Breast Star  of the Croatian Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir 1st Class with Oak Leaves.

    What is your opinion:

    On the class of Number 1?

    And what is the Breast Star Number 3?

    What is the class of the Breast Star on the second photo of Lietzmann I posted?

  13. There is no date, but we know that Lietzmann was the Standing Naval-Attaché for Spain from 24 March 1936 until November 1936 (so he was the Naval-Attaché for a short period of time before the Civil War broke out in July).

    You theory is very plausible, but I don't understand why Franco would award Lietzmann with the same class of the award (Grand Cross) if he already received it from the Royal Family.

    To me the #1 Breast Star from the first photo still looks smaller than the Grand Cross breast star and in my opinion it is the 3rd Class of the Spanish Naval Order.

    It wouldn't make sense #3 is the Order of Military Merit because it looks like the Grand Cross breast star, so the #1 he is wearing would be the only Spanish Order of Naval Merit he is wearing, and like I said above, to me it looks like #1 is the 3rd Class and not the Grand Cross (4th Class).

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