laurentius

Lovely bar in great condition

Dear Johanh,

would you perhaps have a picture of this lovely piece. Since it was never handed out it must be in excellent condition.

Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

2 hours ago, Lukasz Gaszewski said:

A different kind of stuff, but notice that the prince's star of the Black Eagle is surrounded by the English Garter.

Not uncommon, there are various examples of garterbands 'draped' around stars. The castle in Coburg has various examples like the Order of the Black Eagle and the Hessian Ludwigsorden. I have also seen the English king Georg V with a star surrounded by a garterband.

There was also an example of the Russian Order of St. Andrew the First-called with a garterband, although I was doubtful about it's authenticity.

Kind regards, Laurentius

4 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:

Maybe it's too late to update the new bar

Not necessarily too late, it was uncommon to wear medalbars during the war (except for private occasions like weddings, funerals, portraits etc.) On the other hand there is also the financial argument. One does not know how many awards he will receive during the war so it would be wise to update it when you are sure you're done getting medals.

4 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:

Maybe you are right, sir. The Qing Empire died in 1912. So the EK2 on this photo can only be 1870. But I am curious as to why he did not have the Commemorative War Memorial Medal, the 100th anniversary medal of William I. . And other medals?

It is not uncommon to just wear an EK2 or a PLM without anything else. Keep things simple, not too flashy. An EK was enough to open doors to any place during the Wilhelmine era in Germany.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Not original, one of the many pieces produced in Hungary around 2000 if I'm not mistaken

Perhaps I'm wrong but I believe I'm seeing a bit of a curve on the EK, I think it might actually be a first class.

1 hour ago, Utgardloki said:

What do you guys think, was wearing it in the buttonhole only a transition period thing, until the medal bar was updated, or did some guys prefer to wear it that way without the intention to add it to the bar later?

Rick Lundstrom always used to say that bars without iron crosses belonged to recipients with iron crosses and that iron crosses were only worn through the buttonhole on the day of the award. I tend to agree often, unless evidence suggests otherwise. When talking about wearing through the buttonhole one might think rather of the BMMJO or the GMVK. I don't believe there were any soldiers/officers who wore their EK2 through the buttonhole on full-time basis, although I would be willing to believe there might have been a few 'rogue' officers who didn't update their medalbar just to wear the EK2 through the buttonhole when pictures where taken (which back in the day was rarely if at all).

Kind regards, Laurentius

The reason I did not mention 1848/1849 was because I didn't believe the recipient to be old enough to have served during the uprisings. However, if we presume that this veteran is in his 50's, he would have been in his 20's around 1848/49 which is an age around which one was most likely in service in those days. Remember that Hindenburg got his PRAO4x at age 19.

Kind regards, Laurentius

8 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Mayve they received RAO4x later?

I doubt that. The RAO4x was only given out during 1864 and 1866 (von Hindenburg received one for Königgratz). The only other recipients served in the colonies, given the lack of decorations that point in that direction I doubt that. Not to mention that Germany barely had any colonies at this point (circa 1880).

Kind regards, Laurentius

3 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Back to the medals. Laurentius: What do you mean with LS-decoration?

3 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Both crosses were awarded to NCOs. Does that fit to our man???

If not, it must be a KO!

 

LS is the abreviation for Long Service decoration. This is the only one that fits the third place. It isn't a Kronenorden, since the cross-arms are straight and not slightly bent. 

3 hours ago, The Prussian said:

N°3 could also be a Militär-Ehrenzeichen 1.KL.:

https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/militar-ehrenzeichen-1-klasse-1864.html

or Militär-Verdienstkreuz:

https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/militar-verdienstkreuz-1864.html

Both crosses were awarded to NCOs. Does that fit to our man???

These crosses do not fit either, because the ribbon in the picture is blue and not black and white like the first and second ribbon. This officer therefore has a EKII, RAO4x or KO4x and MMV2. Due to the quality of the picture it is near impossible to see whether it is a KO4x or RAO4x. Both these decorations were given out during the Austro-German war of 1866

Kind regards, Laurentius

1 hour ago, ArHo said:

Also, may the second decoration from right (viewers's point of view) be the Mecklenburg Militärverdienstkreuz?

It is the Mecklenburg Militärverdienstkreuz, however, due to the unclear picture we won't be able to figure out if it was for the Austro-German war of 1866 or the Franco-Prussian war of 1870/1871.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear ArHo,

lovely picture you have there. A nice RAO4x, although it could also be a KO4x, I'm not entirely sure. The third award is not the Kronenorden, but rather a LS-decoration. It has straight arms, not the slightly bent arms we'd see on a Kronenorden.

Kind regards, Laurentius

1 hour ago, P.F. said:

What is the medal hanging from the 2nd buttonhole Looks like Prussian Crown Order 4th Class

Medal bar:

- Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse or 3. Klasse mit der Schleife ???

- Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse

- Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz

- China-Denkmünze or Kolonial-Denkmünze ???

- Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897

- Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden 3. Klasse

- Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen

- Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse des Großherzoglich Hessischen Verdienstordens Philipps des Großmütigen ???

- Fürstlich Waldeckisches Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse ???

- Ritterkreuz 2. Klasse des Königlich Schwedischen Schwertordens

I actually think his medalbar has the Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse and he is wearing the 3. Klasse through the buttonhole. I agree with your identification of the decorations on the medalbar (except for the Kronen-orden, as stated). I also believe the 4th medal is the China-Denkmünze and not the Kolonial-Denkmünze.

Kind regards, Laurentius

12 hours ago, V.Vazov said:

This one is King Ferdinand's star from a Grand cross set. Judging by the flowers in the swards handles most likely Krelty French made, right @Graf?

This star reminds me of several Belgian grandcrosses I've seen. They were most likely also made in France.

Kind regards, Laurentius

I have not seen it before with an BMVK3xKR, however I have seen it with wreaths and crowned swords for orders. This tradition can be seen roughly from WW1 up to 1945. I recall a picture of Oberst von Limburg who wore a ribbon with wreath through his buttonhole for his Wurttembergian MVO. This picture of General von Manstein illustrates the wearing of a HoHx-miniature through the buttonhole. 

Kind regards, Laurentius

James Austin Domage does not sound very Italian, are there no other decorations or miniatures? With such a name I would be inclined to think that he is English or American. All awards seem to have been bestowed during the reign of Victor Emmanuel II.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Wessel Gordon,

I would urge you to buy genuine medals for your collection. If you were again in a tight-spot money-wise you'd just sell one or two and be on your way again, that's not something you can do with fakes, they are just a waste of money. 

Kind regards, Laurentius

Ccj might have a point here. It is not unlikely that some type of royal served in this regiment. This would also explain the size and the number of the loops. Breaststars with fangs are much more common than regular 'Steckkreuze'. Perhaps someone from the Hohenzollern family, or one of the other ruling houses of Germany might have owned the tunic. This thread is getting more interesting by the minute

If the owner of this tunic died during the war we could rule out some big, unofficial Freikorps-award. Consider the size it would be to me most likely to be an Franz Joseph-orden Offizierskreuz with fangs on the horizontal ar

Dear dwmosher,

when looking at the loops of your splendid tunic I would think that there once was a EK1, not just any EK1, but a lovely Kurassiers-version with fangs on the horizontal arms. This would explain the four loops, I cannot think of any other decoration that could be placed here.

Kind regards, Laurentius

On 14/09/2006 at 19:12, Herr General said:

Knight in the House order of Lippe

Knight-commander, as shown in these pictures.

Dear fellow collectors,

I hope pictures are good too? Here are some pictures of His Royal Highness Prince Hendrik at several points in his life.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear JBFloyd,

here is another one, the eagle is a bit different, but the elements seem to be quite the same.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear JBFloyd,

it's a theatrical production from the post-ww1 era if I'm not mistaken, although Sascha Wöschler has more knowledge about these. The swords, both regular and crossed 'am Ring' are a new one for me though.

Kind regards, Laurentius

The medalbar is lovely, unlike the behaviour of some collectors here....

Splendid indeed