Peter Mc

RIC Officer Swords The Constabulary of Ireland, also known as the Irish Constabulary, was constituted in 1836 and arose from various policing bodies in place since 1814. In recognition of the part it played during the Fenian Rising of 1867 the title 'Royal' was conferred upon the force and thenceforth it was known as the Royal Irish Constabulary or the R.I.C. Once the premier police force of the Empire, it suffered terribly during the Troubles of 1919-21 and was disbanded in 1922 following the creation of the Irish Free State. The establishment of the force was around 10,000 and covered the entire 32 counties of Ireland with its headquarters in Dublin. Like the army, it was organised around a system of officers, NCO's and other ranks; with the rank of District Inspector being the lowest officer rank. Officers carried swords on parade and inspection. The swords were purchased privately from military outfitters (John Ireland being perhaps the most popular) but were also commonly purchased from retiring officers or handed down from father to son. Thus it could be that an early Constabulary of Ireland sword would be worn right through to 1922 and indeed, in some cases, then worn in the newly formed Royal Ulster Constabulary. A copy of RIC regulations for 1913 reveals the following: Sword - Steel mounted; half basket hilt, with the crown and harp pierced in the guard; blade perfectly straight, 32 and one half inches in length, and 1 and one eighth inches in width at the shoulder, gradually decreasing to seven eighths of one inch, till rounded off to the point at 3 inches from same, which is spear shaped; blade embossed on right side with the harp and garter of R.I.C., surmounted by crown, and on the other side with the King's cypher; scabbard of steel. Sword-Belt - waist-belt of web, 2 inches wide, with snake-hook fastening. Adjustable buckle of nickel plate on short carriage, long carriage fixed to back of belt. Black patent seal skin slings, 1 and one quarter inches wide, with nickel plated mounting. Sword slings to fasten to sword with studs and billets of plain black leather. Sword Knot - Black plaited leather cord, with acorn, covered with leather, also plaited. Although these regulations for 1913 are very specific we can see a variation in patterns over the years. Most usually it is the 1845 Infantry Pattern hilt but some early examples used the Royal Artillery pattern, and at least one Inspector-General carried the Mameluke style sabre. All the sword examples I have seen to date have an unfullered blade. Occasionally presentation swords surface; most often presented by local dignitaries to officers of the Constabulary for services rendered. The Mounted section of the RIC carried a cavalry pattern sword, and the constables carried the bayonet (also termed a sword, as the force adopted the Rifle Regiment ethos and terminology). An officer of the RIC in full dress, with sword. This photo was taken outside the Officers Mess, Phoenix Park Depot, Dublin. The old RIC Depot is now the headquarters of the Garda Siochana. Royal Irish Constabulary Sword An example of an RIC sword, the hilt showing the harp and crown motif. The RIC crest is present on the blade. The maker is John Ireland. Waist Belt Clasp Attached is an example of a pattern of sword belt buckle used by RIC officers, worn outside of the uniform. This one is plated silver.

A Lovell's pattern carbine to the Constabulary of Ireland An 1842 pattern carbine. 26" brl of .65" calibre, full walnut stock with brass mounts, butt plate tang engraved C7902. Lock with Tower VR cypher dated 1844. Faint BO mark to butt with 1844 stamp. Number '41' marked to left side of butt. (In the Revenue Police this would correspond to Shrade in Donegal). This pattern of carbine was designed by G. Lovell for issue to the police. This specimen with C prefixed number on the butt was issued to the Irish Constabulary.

Another Irish Revenue Police Musket A .65 Lovells pattern 1842 Constabulary Per carbine, 26" brl, profusely ordnance marked at breech, full walnut stock with B.O. Storekeepers stamp to butt dated 1851. Brass mounts buttcap stamped RP 862. Matching stamped ramrod. Lovells spring bayonet catch, lock struck with Tower crown VR cypher dated 1847. Number '39' and 'I. Johnson' stamped to lock backplate; indicating the Party number for Gort, Galway; later transferred to Killaloe, Clare. Holland & Sons stamped to underside of butt. VG condition with ex. Sharp untouched stock, much original blue to brl. This was James Holland (later & Son) who were trading in East London in the Minories area close to all the London Ordnance Contractors in the period 1825 to 1868. James Holland took his son into the trade name for the years 1855-68. This ties in nicely with the Ordnance Contract date for this carbine. I. Johnson would have been the setter-up of the carbine, i.e., the subcontractor who put it together.

In this topic I will show some examples of firearms as issued to the old Irish Police Forces, prior to 1922. A Lovell's pattern 1842 Constabulary percussion carbine, as issued to the Irish Revenue Police. A .65" percussion constabulary carbine, 42½" overall, barrel 26¾" with traces of Tower proofs and with Lovell's spring bayonet catch below muzzle, the lock engraved with crowned "VR" and "Tower 1848", full walnut stock with broad arrow and "BO" and 1851 marked on butt, regulation brass mounts, the butt plate tang engraved "RP 736", original steel ramrod, sling swivels. Holland & Sons stamped to underside of butt. GWO & C (barrel and ramrod moderately pitted overall and cleaned, light pitting and wear to lock, some bruising to stock)

Mervyn - you are very probably correct in that this could be a relic of the Fenian disturbances but there is another possibility. Around the same period (1867-8) there was industrial unrest in Britain centred around the coal field areas of the Midlands and Derbyshire. The colliery owners got permission for, and enrolled, numerous special constables (who often had some affiliation with the colliery itself) to help control the rioters. What success they had I'm not sure. But they appear to have had some sort of uniform and almost certainly would have carried sticks or truncheons.

A superb item Mervyn.

My interest in the Royal Irish Constabulary led me to acquire this little piece. It was owned by Douglas V Duff; author and adventurer, who served in both the RIC and the Palestine Police. It appears to be of solid silver, and measures approximately 6" x 4". On the reverse of the mount which came with the buckle is a typed memo "The buckle of the sword-belt presented to me by The Sultan Pasha el Atrash,principal prince of the DRUZE nation, shortly after the Battle of the Wadi Sirhan, when we defeated the Wahabite invasion of Transjordania in 1923. Douglas V Duff of the Palestine Gendarmerie." Sultan Pasha al-Atrash appears to have been a very important figure as regards the Druze nation. I have not been able to find out much about Wadi Sirhan. Although there are a number of references to a battle, the dates and places are sometimes contradictory. The spelling of placenames and individuals also seems inconsistent. However the following extract from Duff's book "Bailing with a Teaspoon" is relevant: "Abdullah, a younger son of King Hussein, was given the land east of the River Jordan, the territories of the ancient Moabites, Ammonites and Nabataeans, as his quasi-independent principality. Transjordan is the one exception to our tale of ineptitude in Arab lands. We have succeeded there, to a far greater extent than elsewhere, because we had some of the very best men in all the Empire acting as our representatives at the court of the Emir. Such stalwarts as Peake, Glubb, the two Kirkbrides, Cox and Foot have, with a few others, played a noble part, in startling contrast to the generality of British officials west of the Sacred River. But the very fact of the Emir, whom we imposed on the tribes and towns of Transjordan, being an Outlander made matters precarious at first. There have been countless intrigues and risings which had to be met with inade- quate forces, so that a policy of "divide and rule" was intelligently employed until a new generation arose who had no memory of Ottoman Turkish days. When I first went east of the Jordan the Paramount sheikhs still enjoyed great power and were almost absolute rulers within their own areas. Another great danger was the ancient feud between the Saudian House of the Princes of Nejd and the Hashimites of Mecca, which had reached a climax, for, at that time, the great Arab prince, Abdul Aziz Ibn Saoud, who has since proved himself among the most enlightened and unselfish of monarchs, was confined to his own territory in the Nejd, the interior of Arabia. There is no man in modern times who has lived a more adventurous and hazardous life than he; his story reads like that of some mediaeval monarch of the days of the Crusades. His Majesty King Ibn Saoud has endured all the vicissitudes of war and fortune that befell Bohemund or Richard Lion-heart As a young man he led a forlorn hope of stormers across the ramparts of his capital city; like Baldwin the First he has been a homeless wanderer with only a few followers and, also like that Crusading King of Jerusalem, has won great power and place through his own courage and infinite resource. King Ibn Saoud is the head of a great religious movement which was in bitter opposition to the form of Islam practised by the rulers of Mecca. The Wahabite Reform of the Faith is stern and uncompromising, but it appeals to the puritanical spirit of the fighting Bedouin tribesmen, tinder King Ibn Saoud it has welded the loose confederation of nomad clans in the Hedjaz into an obedient and extremely courageous whole, somewhat on the lines of an extremely efficient and hardy Cromwellian New Model. At the time of which I am writing, however, King Ibn Saoud had only newly emerged from the fastnesses of his native Nejd and was attacking the kingdom of the Hedjaz in which Britain had enthroned the Emir's father, King Hussein. The Wahabites were swiftly driving the Hashimites out of Arabia; the stern sectaries were not only victorious at almost every point, but the former subjects of Hussein were accepting the invaders with alacrity and embracing their rugged Reformed religion. The main danger was that a Wahabite expeditionary force might thrust into Transjordania to expel our protege, the Hashimite Emir. But we moved no Imperial troops into Transjordania, although a few British gendarmes were sent to prepare accommodation in case our Force, being a purely Colonial one and not an Imperial regiment whose presence might have provoked League of Nations comment, had to be employed. The Arab Legion, then a far smaller Force than it is nowadays, was told to do all it could and not ask for reinforcement if it could avoid doing so. There was a squadron of R.A.F., stationed in Ramleh, near Jaffa, with a few obsolescent armoured-cars, which was moved to Amman in case their use became imperative. That was all our striking-force. Fortunately, we had Peake in command of the Arab Legion, Peake Pasha, as he is widely known, and he worked wonders. It must be remem- bered that the Legion was in its infancy and that there was always a risk that its troopers, who were mainly tribesmen, might be swayed more by loyalty to their individual Paramount-sheikhs than by their oath to serve the Out- lander prince whom Britain had imposed on them. The Arab Legion was not mechanized then, it consisted of a few squadrons of cavalry and camelry, together with a mixed battery of four guns, two of them lost by the Honour- able Artillery Company during the abortive Es Salt Raid in 1918. Another was an ex-Turkish piece; the fourth, of different calibre, had been abandoned by a German battery serving under General Liman von Sanders. There is a good tale, it may be apocryphal, which says that the sabres of the Legion were donated by a Cairo museum after they had lain disregarded in its cellars ever since Napoleon's cavalry lost them a century and a quarter before. The only asset possessed by the Emir's Legion was the indomitable personality of Peake Pasha moulding the inherent courage of his Bedouins. "We faced a situation and a problem very similar to those experienced by the Crusading kings; the princes of Islam were fighting between themselves and in their warfare anything might happen to the weak and under-garrisoned coastal strip ruled under the Red Cross of St. George. If a Wahabite army swept into Amman, the next dawn might find it ravening round the walls of Jerusalem, while the evening of the same day could see the few survivors of the British Mandate making their last stand on the beaches of the Mediterranean. The emergency sprang on us so suddenly that there was no time to do more than to hold the threatened breach as best we could. We had time only to dash out to a valley about fifteen miles from Amman the capital, and to dig-in, before the fanatical flood of hardy desert riders broke against us on their surge towards the destruction of the Hashi- mite principality. We numbered about 400 Arab Legionaries under Peake Pasha, two R.A.F. armoured-cars and the small advance party of about a dozen British Gendarmerie. We counted thirteen banners waving above the heads of the Arab cavalry and reckoned that there were close on five to six thousand riders, all well armed and superbly mounted, facing us. We had strung a thin fence of barbed wire across the narrow valley, which was about 400 yards wide from rock to rock, and 100 yards behind it we dug a shallow, trench and erected a second fence, both of them very flimsy, for we had to be economical with our scanty wire. The enemy came at us in the fashion of the riders of Saladin and of Bibars the Mameluke, banners waving, swords brandished in the air, lance-heads glittering, mantles aswirl and head-cloths streaming wildly in the wind of their own headlong passage. Shrill voices screamed "Attak-hu-AklarJ", the age-old battle-shout of Islam; every rider in the horde desperate to come to handstrokes with the pitifully small line of heretics and foreign infidels who faced them. They struck our further wire like a wave of the ocean hitting the rocks of the foreshore. Scores went down, horses kicking, men struggling madly to free themselves, only to be ridden over by their roaring comrades in the rear, who used them as a ramp to carry them over the apron-fence and on to our parapet. Rifles, and our heterogeneous selection of machine-guns, about ten or a dozen of them, did not stop them, though they went down in swathes, but the second wire fence did, where we of the Gendarmerie pelted the shrieking, writhing mass with hand-grenades. Two small causeways, left to span the trench, allowed the old Rolls-Royce armoured-cars to go through and join in the fray. I saw men clad in the mail hauberks their ancestors may have used at the Horns of Hattin, or at the Mameluke's intaking of Antioch, swinging swords as they tried to reach the Legionaries in the trench. Only a few of the Waha- bites troubled to use the rifles they all wore slung on their shoulders. A handful who fought their way over the bodies of comrades blanketing our wire, died on the bayonets, or beneath the swinging sabres of the Legion. It was more than human flesh could stand. Suddenly they broke, streaming away down the valley in full rout. It was over too quickly for me to feel very much during the hectic moments of the actual fighting, but I did realize that the Lord God had been very good to me in allowing me to bear a hand in the same kind of warfare as that which our ancestors had shared when they ringed their shield- wall round the crest of the Mount of Beatitudes of Hattin, to face the horsemen and archers of Saladin charging through the acrid smoke of the smouldering herbiage. I found two mail hauberks on the battlefield, one of them was of Cru- sading chainwork, the other made of the fine Damascene rings the Saracens once wore. I also found a sword, whose blade was new but whose cross-hilt bore the mark of two knights astride a single horse, the badge of the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of the Lord, the Knights Templar. I took away a most noble battle-axe of Frankish origin." Transjordan was a small nation of only 400,000 people and of these most of them were farmers or nomads. Because of this, there was little infrastructure in place and still less expertise in running a bureaucracy of any kind. Consequently, the Emir ran affairs much as any Sheikh had done before, leaving British officials to handle the problems of defense, finance, and foreign policy. The British appointed a resident to Transjordan, but he was effectively under instructions from the British High Commissioner in Palestine. In 1921, a police force was organised to help the king with his problems of internal control. It was organised by F. G. Peake, a British officer known to the Arabs as Peake Pasha. This Arab force was soon actively engaged in suppressing brigandage and repelling raids by the Wahhabis. In 1923 the police and reserve force were combined into the Arab Legion as a regular army under Peake's command and helped regular British units fight against further Wahhabi incursions. If any member can add to or correct my assumptions I would be most grateful.

Those Irish Times links don't work for me I'm afraid - I think the news that free access is available may be premature! But I agree this is probably the same man. Abbott in his book "Police Casualties in Ireland 1919-1922" refers to the same incident (10 July 1921, just one day before the Truce)and that Constable Conlon 64016, who was from Roscommon, had no relations other than a sister who had left for the States some 2 weeks previously. He is buried in Newtownbreda. His killing helped provoke a week of rioting in Belfast in which about 14 people died.

I think Ross has decided to post his pictures on ebay instead: An RIC(?) belt and equipment I've no reason to change my original views on this.

And to confuse it all further Smyth wasn't an Englishman - he was an Ulsterman from Banbridge!

Of a sample of over 1000 men David Leeson ("The 'Scum of Londons Underworld'? British Recruits in the Royal Irish Constabulary", 2003); finds that around 20% were allocated to Ulster. This corresponds with my own knowledge of Donegal and Monaghan as an example. The Listowel reference is timely, I was inside that building only last week. Not all of those dismissed RIC joined the IRA, in fact very few did and it was hardly in their nature anyway to start killing their ex-comrades. There is a plaque inside the door - - but you don't find any mention on it of the dismissed Black and Tan from London who was in the party of 14 present - Archibald Thompson. Guess he doesn't fit the stereotype. The Irish nationalist P.S. O'Hegarty in "The Victory of Sinn Fein" (Talbot Press 1924, p55) notes that, due to the increasing level of tit-for-tat violence "...The eventual result was a complete moral collapse here. When it was open to any Volunteer Commandant to order the shooting of any civilian, and to cover himself with the laconic legend "Spy" on the dead man's breast, personal secutity vanished and no man's life was safe...."

To return to the original theme, even if albeit briefly.... I did propose in an earlier post what I believe Mervyn's truncheon was for. I can't speculate on the value as the collecting field is too volatile in this area. Attached are some other Irish police batons: This first is a 19" RIC baton dating before 1901. After that date the handpainted device was replaced by a transfer. Standard issue batons for the RIC were 15.5 inches long, and were unpainted. And a close up of the crest: This baton is made of bog oak and very hefty. Some believe these were issued to the very early Irish policing bodies; I'm not convinced. I think they are a late 19th century tourist souvenir, but I retain an open mind. again - a close up. The baton is decorated with shamrocks and a harp, and has a hole for a wrist strap.

I agree with almost everything Ulsterman says but must take issue with some points - 1. In some key areas like Cork and Kerry some Tans (if you mean temporory constables) were brutal, ran amok and earned themselves a fearful reputation. Across the whole of Ireland the picture was different and where the local sergeant was a robust and good leader, the English recruits often integrated very well. The same could be said for the Auxiliary companies, of which a handful were rightly despised. I just can't accept the similarity to the forces of the Third Reich. Many Tans as you know were Irishmen. One Auxiliary cadet, from a very notorious company, went on to marry the lady editor of the Freeman's Journal and the President of Ireland even saw fit to attend his funeral. 2. I'm sure you mean the nine counties of Ulster, and that Ulster remains nine counties even now! The RIC was not solidly Unionist in Ulster before 1922. It was, even in these counties, predominantly catholic and therefore one can suppose, Nationalist or Redmondite in sympathy. The situation did change from late 1920 onwards and I agree that after 1922 it could be said to be majority Unionist. 3. Heaney's poem relies on the symbolism of the revolver as defining the division between policing by consent and policing by force. I agree totally. My grandfather had always said, when told to start wearing his revolver after 1917, that the carrying of arms set the RIC apart from the people and that they would never be able to win their confidence again. He was so right. Peter The Royal Irish Constabulary Forum

Any photos to help us Ross? From your description I doubt that it would be RIC, unless you have good provenance. The black leather belt was not used solely by the RIC but was used in other forces as well as military.

What a wonderful topic! We've weaved our way from batons to B-men, via Larne and Howth and Brookeborough town to the birth of the Provos, and back again to Partition. I could add here that my great-uncle was a 'Murder Member' and so start posts spinning off in new directions but I'll save that for another day! Seriously though, some great and interesting contributions here, so thanks to all. :D

Leigh - I've not heard of any Chinese markings on a Howth Mauser before. May be worth checking with the National Museum of Ireland as to what their example is like, as a reference. However I think your latter assumption is probably more likely.

Mervyn - are you sure its Brigade and not Battalion? This may be a memento of the 2nd Battalion North Down Regt of the UVF, elements of which were involved in the landing of arms for the UVF at Donaghadee, Larne and Bangor in April 1914.

Wonderful stuff. Do you know the criteria for these awards, and indeed how many may have been awarded?

Hi Coldstream - the facings are black, not "RUC Green"/Black like the earlier uniforms but 'proper' black.

The Royal Ulster Constabulary wore mess dress for a period, at Inspector level and above. I do not have the precise dates to hand but I think they were discontinued in the early 1980's. The same tunic was also worn by members of the RUC Bands. Out of interest, the RUC Pipe Band also wore silvered harp and crown collar badges. No makers marks or tags to the tunic, for security reasons. Tunic views: Collar badge: Epaullete: Cuff buttons: Silvered collar badges of the RUC Pipe Band:

Isn't that the welwitschia plant above and surrounding the diamond?

More the other way round Mervyn. A D.I. would be the equivalent now of a Superintendent, and a C.I. a Chief Super or Asst Chief Constable. However at the time the ranks were more analgous to army ranks viz a D.I 1st Class would be a Major and a County Inspector a Colonel.

The first uniform is to an RUC officer of the rank of County Inspector. The second uniform is to a woman constable of the RUC. The third and fourth pictures are of the helmet and full dress tunic of a District Inspector (1st Class) of the RIC. As I recall the PSNI Museum knows the identity of the original owners of these uniforms as they were donated to the Museum.

Thanks Mervyn. Yes I am specifically an 'old Irish police' collector. If you google "Royal Irish Constabulary Sword" or "Irish Revenue Police Sword" you'll see more photos of RIC swords. Here are some better pics of the buckle showing more detail:

A sword belt buckle of the Royal Irish Constabulary, as worn by officers of the rank of District Inspector or above.