ccj

I to think it would be a good assumption

I think its worth $500-$600. I hope if you get it you can reunite it with the bar Rick posted. That's probably gonna cost you double

Well done Daniel. I remember this article in O&E. In the picture 16 the ribbon bar of von Raben is the same than this one. so he wore 3 differents ribbon bars. I prefer not posting the photo without permission of the autor. If you know him can you post it for Charles please !

Christophe

It would be very nice to have the article to read. What are the chances of getting a copy?

Christophe, it is a nice bar isn't it?

Thanks Rick,

Was SA Obergruppenf?hrer Friedrich von Raben present at Night Of The Long Knives? I'm going to do some searching to see what info comes up on the net for this man.

Oh Rick,

Your right, I wrote Baden because I've been searching for a certain ribbon bar combo. I knew this was a W?rttemberg bar because of the multiple W?rttemberg ribbons but my brain refuses to cooperate. It's a nice bar but really too worn for most people to collect.

Well,

Some may have seen this bar in the past. I'm trying to find out who the owner/wearer of the bar.

Can some of the expert help? I have no good research materials.

ccj, did you read the evolution page on the kaiser bunker web pages for imperial german hats? fantastic research and great if you cant afford those big dollar references..

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/index.htm

Yeah, that's pretty good stuff...

Many thanks! Interesting that SCHIMPF did indeed keep the pre-1938 precedence, so if LIEB did as well.....

Wow, how unexpected is it for Schimpf's ribbn bars to show up on this thread. The collectors on this forum are AMAZING to me...

I just hope to someday have a bar with WM3 and a WFaX combo.

Rick, what does the revese look like?

I believe that is a Zugwachtmeister = Feldwebel.

He would be either Artillery or Cavalry based on the strap on his left shoulder

Rick,

What's the purple ribbon?

WOW!

Oh man, those are sweet!

It's wonderful to have the exact item that someone is wearing in a photo.

I myself harbor deep, unnaturally lustful feelings about Werner-made TWMs.

For me, THEY are the of the . My desire for Werner TWMs burns as brightly as my "special relationship" with Tamara Of Sainted Memory.

Yet even I would not pay more than 200 U.S. dollars for another Werner. At that price, I consider myself insane. At that price, I very likely never will get another one.

But at some point, reality has to intrude.

It's ONLY a TWM!

Rick, that is a beauty! I love TWM th vertical pins.

I have a nice example of a cased TWM but its pin is horizontal.

I would just like to add that to be a member of the General Duties Branch, you HAD to be Officer aircrew; if an Intelligence Officer was in the G/D Branch he would have to be still more-or less medically fit for posting to flying duties. Normally if you were no longer fit for flying duties you would be transferred to Administrative & Special Duties (Admin) Branch. There would normally be no provision whatsoever for non-flying officers in thre G/D Branch.

David Duxbury

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

BTW

Who is the highly decorated officer in the 1st post? he has a heck of a nice ribbon bar. His rank looks to be major. Obviously, he could get away with wearing a hybrid tunic for formal occasions

Gentlemen,

For the benefit of the ribbon bar aficionados among us, I would like to present a couple of recently acquired bars nothing spectacular, but I like the W?rttemberg connection.

Those are wonderful. I've been searching for over 10 years for the second one. Congrats

Charles,

NCOs did add breast pockets on occasion. I have a photo of an Etatsm??ige Feldwebel with them. I don't think the lower ranks could get away with it.

Chip

Thanks Chip,

I've seen a gefreiter 1910 tunic with pockets added and wasn't sure if it's an okay period example or a post war addition. I've been told tunics had pockets added and buttons replaced after the war. Buttons are easy to remove but not pockets

That's a good Question. I'd like to see the entire range of awards for this decoration. I've often wondered why there appear to be so many different crosses for enlisted people. Then theres the one with the enameled center.

Also, if you are awarded the decoration 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 times do you where all on the medal bar? What aoubt he ribbon bar? I've seen as many as three on a ribbon bar and wonder if it's the same as three Prussian black/white ribbons.

Charles,

I know of no regulation authorizing such hybrids. 99.9% of these combinations appear on privately purchased uniforms. Alterations were not officially allowed for issued uniforms, but they normally were overlooked if they were within reason.

Chip

Chip,

Would enlisted men and NCOs get away with adding pockets to their uniform tunics? I've seen NCO pilots do such things but wonder if infantry and artillery types could also wear non regulation items.

This Kraftfahr Officer appears to have a green badge cloth collar and tabs for a 1915 bluse on a 1910 style tunic. Maybe even 1915 pattern buttons too

I've been looking at uniform detail and have noticed there are 1910 tunics that have 1915 green badge cloth collars and some apparently have 1915 style buttons. I've seen both 1910 and 1915 tunics with breast pockets and this was unauthorized. Were these types of variations only allowed in the field?

Here's a photo showing an officer who is wearing a 1910 tunic with a 1915 green collar and 1915 pattern tabs. I suppose this is a studio portrait so maybe this uniform was okay. Is it possible there was a pattern that was a hybrid between 1910 and 1915 showing attributes from both?

Chip,

I think your right.

The collar is unusual but it seems very rare to find a 1910 with 1915 style buttons. That Kraftfahr officer seems to have a really unual tunic with 1915 buttons, a 1915 bluse collar with 1915 tabs, and 1910 boards(?).

Heiko,

Can you post more photos on this man? His uniform is very interesting and maybe other photos would clear up whether or not he was an NCO before becoming a Lt. How do you know his awards? Do you have a list of his awards or a photo of him wearing them?

Charles,

It looks like that first tunic has subdued M15 boards as well.

Chip

Chip,

I think your right.

The collar is unusual but it seems very rare to find a 1910 with 1915 style buttons. That Kraftfahr officer seems to have a really unual tunic with 1915 buttons, a 1915 bluse collar with 1915 tabs, and 1910 boards(?).

I don't remember whose this is or where it was posted. Here's a 1910 with a 1915 collar. Odd but I saw one in the Kraus book and have seen a few others. I think this may be the first time I've seen a period photo of 1915 collars and buttons on a 1910 cut tunic.

Here's one from another forum that has 1915 smooth buttons on a 1910 tunic.

I didn't notice the buttons, they do look like the 1915 pattern. His collar material also looks like the man wearing the 1915 tunic behind him not like the other wearing the typical 1910 tunic. Did officer's have 1910 tunics made after the new 1915 feldbluse was introduced? I wonder if his shoulder boards are 1910 or 1915...

I don't remember whose this is or where it was posted. Here's a 1910 with a 1915 collar. Odd but I saw one in the Kraus book and have seen a few others. I think this may be the first time I've seen a period photo of 1915 collars and buttons on a 1910 cut tunic.

Charles, I think you're right that M-15 collar litzen is being worn on this officer. You can see the same litzen on the officer wearing the Bluse above him and the "correct" M-10 litzen for this type of tunic on the officer to the right. Not only that, but the buttons appear to be M-15 (rimless) type.

Dave

I didn't notice the buttons, they do look like the 1915 pattern. His collar material also looks like the man wearing the 1915 tunic behind him not like the other wearing the typical 1910 tunic. Did officer's have 1910 tunics made after the new 1915 feldbluse was introduced? I wonder if his shoulder boards are 1910 or 1915...