Hello Haynau, yes you know what I am talking about, militaria0815 has also my opinion because he also collects Bavarian Orders for a very long time and knows well about the bad things which are since twenty years on the market(first flea market later Internet), Kev I?m sorry that you don`t understand what I?am talking about you can think what you want but I only wanted to help to stop copys and manipulations going around. The things I have written about these MVKs is not only a Opinion it is fact . The MVK from Haynau is a very nice early(1914-16) piece with an three part center Medallion made of pure gold.