JohanH

Hello Janne! The only lion order with swords that I know of is the one at Prenikka. But I suppose you already know of that one. But since most of the orders with swords was awarded to foreigners, mostly germans (at least according to the lists I have), I believe the best place to find one is in Germany. I guess you only have to wait and watch the coming auctions and keep your fingers crossed. But you might get some competition….

Another idea is to contact the veteran union directly. Since it´s them who issue the cross they should have all the details about them. Number of awarded, material, etcetera. http://www.veljesapu.fi/pages/Palaute/3224

I hope you have better luck than me with contacting Tiainen. I have sent him several emails a while ago but he doesn´t reply. If you do find any more information about the SS crosses, please let me know.

I would love to see some pictures of your cross and it´s hallmarks.

No problem. Like I said, I´m far from being an expert on these crosses. But here are my thoughts and ideas. One guess could be that the crosses numbered 1000-1059 were made for museums and therefore numbered while the crosses made for collectors was unnumbered? As I understand it, the variation 3 was made only for museums and collectors. Not to be awarded to veterans. If I remember right the cross was issued in late 50s, possibly 1958, by the SS-veteran union. Maybe not all SS-volunteers joined the veteran union and therefore didn´t get a cross? I believe that when it comes to atleast other Finnish memory crosses the veteran himself had to apply for a cross/medal. Maybe not everyone wanted to show that they were former SS men? Don´t take any of this as fact. It´s only my personal guesses. Yes, the "R3" and "RR" is Tiainens rarity scale. R3 equals to "rarely for sale" and RR is "extremely rare".

Here are the pages about the SS cross. The medal from Rauma military hospital have no connection to Finnish SS as i know of. So why it´s on the same page I don´t know.

Interesting about the first 400 crosses. Unfortunately I cannot say either it´s right or wrong. Tiainens book shows four variations of the SS crosses. Type 1 numbered from 1 to about 300. The first 200 crosses have SS runes on the ribbon Type 2 numbered 300-700 Type 3 numbered 1000-1059 and made for collectors and museums Type 4 or recruiters cross numbered in roman numbers and awarded about 35-40 times. Tiainen say it´s awarded 20 times but thats incorrect from what I´ve been told. So the most collectible cross have a number below 200 and with runes on the ribbon. The book is very good for references but there are some mistakes in the chapters with badges about the liberty war. As I have been told. I don´t collect Liberty war badges myself. Probably the only way to get one is to buy it from Finland. That´s what I did. If you want I can make a scan/photo of the pages with the SS crosses and PM you?

According to my book there were eight crosses made. Five numbered and three unnumbered. They are probably in museums all of them...

Hello! According to Jani Tiainens book about Finnish orders and medals the SS crosses are made of tombac. ' I have never seen any other variations. But on the otherhand I´m not an expert on these crosses.

Hello! Nice collection! The best way to get an idea of the value is to check on huuto. But I would say around: VR3 1941 - 150-200€ VR4 1939 - 125-150€ Airforce cross - 125-150€ Karjalan risti - 100-125€ These are only my personal guesses and estimates. The other medals have a low value. 10-30€ each. If you have a name or documentation the price goes up a bit. If all the medals are awarded to the same person, I would recommend not to break the collection. Best regards Johan

Thanks all for the information. My knowledge in Danish/Norwegian orders and medals are close to non existing. I asked the "Ordenskapitel" in Denmark if they have any information about the name of the recipient but unfortunately they couldn´t find anything. But he thought it might have something to do with the Danish volunteers in the winterwar? The hunt/research continues…

Here are the pictures of my newest cross. It´s not the best condition but since it´s so rare I´m happy with it anyway.

I am very impressed about all the knowledge there is on this forum. Super thanks to all of you! Now I´m even more interested in finding out about the owner and why he got the royal medals but don´t have any higher Finnish orders. It´s quite interesting that the Norwegian medal was so early as before 1917. If I manage to find any interesting information I´ll post it here! Thanks again to all of you!

Thank you for a super fast reply Andreas. I believe you are right, it looks just like "Den kongelige Belønningsmedalje Christian X". If I manage to research the recepient it might be possible to find out why he got that medal. Do you know if there is a list of awardees of the Belöningsmedalj available?

Thank you Janne! As you probably already know, there is a VR3 PR 1939 for sale at prenikka.fi. The cross is in extremely fine condition and has a price according to it. But still only 48 awarded so mint crosses are really rare. If I hear or find any other for sale I will send you a PM. Pictures of my VR3 PR 1918 is on its way. Hopefully I can take good pics next week.

Hello! A little while ago I bought this interesting Finnish medalbar containing the following medals: Libertywar medal with bar and rose Order of the white rose Winterwar medal with bar and swords Pitkäranta-cross Liberation of Helsinki Danish medal Norwegian medal Does anybody recognize the Danish and Norwegian medals? They are completely unknown to me. What are they awarded for and during what time? Also does anybody have any idea how I´m going to find the recepients birth date? I have his name and city and were he worked after the war. I have tried to google his name without any luck. I know he died about 20 years ago. If i get his birth date i can order the "Stamkort" from the Finnish archives. //Johan

My latest medalbar from 1918. With iron cross, Hindenburg cross and what I believe is Austrian medals and finally liberty medal 1 class 1918.

Hi guys! sorry for my late reply. I have been sick for the last weeks. Picture will come later in january. The cross is a libertycross 1918 with red cross. 3rd class. One of only 22 awarded crosses. You must be very careful with these crosses since fakes exists.

I will receive another great cross for my collection hopefully during next week…. And I think it´s about time for a new group photo of the crosses or what do you guys think?

Thank you both BalkanCollector and JanneP. The cross looks even better in real life. Finnish (and especially Swedish) enamel is absolutely gorgeous. Most pieces in my collection comes from Finland. The usual stuff from auctions and shops and the rarer pieces directly from other collectors I know. So most of them have not been on the open market.

Thank you very much Dave for great information. My knowledge about imperial German awards are very little since I collect Finnish awards. To me it´s unbelievable how you can find all this information about awards and research medalbars. I don´t understand how but it´s amazing.

Yes. I saw that breast star. Absolutely gorgeous. But it wasn´t me who bought it. Sadly it was to expensive for me. Here is the latest piece for my collection. Liberty cross 1st class with swords 1918 Awarded 44 times!

Hello Dave! Very interesting information about my medalbar. Do you have any tips about the other sources of information about awards for JB 4 personnel? Best regards Johan

Hello Janne! Yes, It´s getting more and more difficult to find the crosses I still need for my collection. The most recent Libertycross purchase is a VR2 1918 without swords which has undamaged enamel. So if anyone is interested in the cross shown a few posts ago. Just let me know. I have a new beautiful cross on its way. I´ll post pics when I receive it.

Thanks Noor! You are right, they are identical except that the finnish medals have switched place. I wonder how usual this combination of medals are.