TS Allen

Hello all, I have a light blue Russian uniform that I acquired in a trade some time ago, a photo is attached and I can provide more. The previous owner (whose name now escapes me--a very nice fellow from Missouri) had several Imperial Russian items, and the other I acquired in the same trade, a very nice pre-1907 piece that is a jewel of my Russo-Japanese War display, has since been confirmed to as authentic by various knowledgeable folks. I believe he may have originally acquired this uniform from Advance Guard Militia. The attached uniform remains something of a mystery to me. Its construction strikes me as consistent with other items from the period, although it's made from an unusual light blue wool flannel. It has a 1917 "tailor's stamp" which strikes me as a later addition to spruce the piece up, as it's very fresh. What can you fine folks tell me about it? Some day I'd like to build a display around it if it is a period piece. Best, T.S.

Ken, I've always found your collection to be a true inspiration. Your new website is very impressive. Have you considered adding pictures of your "war room," in addition to the video? It's really impressive, and well-done pictures could surely do it justice. I'm trying to add Napoleonic militaria to my own collection, although the high prices of seemingly everything do not make it easy. I did finally pick up a Napoleonic Imperial Guard officer's chapeau, which I'll post pictures of this summer when I'm next home (it's gorgeous). I'm hoping to eventually acquire a set of officer's epaulettes or a proper sword to compliment it. I suspect I'm unlikely to find either at a good price, so I intend to wait until I find a dealer interested in a trade for one (I have a substantial collection from the later nineteenth century, and also a very large Third Reich insignia collection that I'm actively trading off). My short list of desired acquisitions includes any insignia beyond buttons, an identified St. Helena Medal, a nice sabre-briquet with scabbard (I recently saw one for $600 I'm considering picking up), and a proper First Empire Legion d'honneur. V/r, ~TS

Hugh, The norm is still around, but it's considered anachronistic. The recently retired General David Petraeus stopped voting as a Major General so he could serve administrations of both parties in high posts. A few years ago a class brief here at the Academy was given on the topic of voting officers by a retired Colonel who insists soldiers should never even consider voting - while I wasn't present, I was told second-hand by both Instructors and Cadets that the question-and-answer session afterward consisted largely of vicious attacks on him and his ideas. I don't vote myself, although most Cadets here do. I find the politicization of the officer corps alarming. Military professionals should not be off fighting the culture wars. But, given the growing religiosity that's accepted (even expected) of our young officers, it's unsurprising. TTFN, ~TS

Hello all, Could enlisted British soldiers in the 19th century vote? The legislation surrounding suffrage changed massively during this period, and at the end of the 19th century the only requirement was that one be an adult male with a house or who paid rent. This would appear to exclude soldiers living in barracks. A brief search in the index of a few common histories of the army in the period didn't turn anything up, although my search was by no means extensive. Admittedly, most soldiers probably wouldn't have voted if they were able to, but it's interesting to consider if they even had the right to do so if they wished. TTFN, ~TS

Busterdog, It's definitely blue, rather than rifle green. I had thought it could be for the 10th Balochistan Rifles, who from one print I've seen wore blue. Any further thoughts? V/r, ~TS

Hello all, I just picked up a Boer War serge jacket for my collection. It's an odd piece. Here's why: The pattern's a copy of the khaki drill tunic, in the same serge material as the other tunics on this thread. It also has a liner, which suggests it's a private-purchase piece. There is no paper label from what I can tell from the photographs. No sign of insignia, either. It generally appears unissued. The buttons are all QVC, and the material and construction look absolutely Victorian to me. The seller bought it unidentified from an antiques dealer in New York City in 1972. I'll post pics when it arrives later in the week. So, was a copy of KD in serge was an authorized pattern? V/r, ~TS

Hello all, I'm looking at purchasing mess dress to a "Captain Lyndsay Forbes" of the Royal Artillery. It's a Victorian piece that to me looks like it dates to the 1890's (if checking the pattern-books suggests otherwise, I'll tell you), with no associated decorations. Can anyone tell me anything about him, or tell me where to find more about him? The forum's been incredibly helpful with this stuff in the past. Thanks, all! ~TS

Hello, Google brought me to this three-year-old thread and it piqued my interest. Where would a Russian officer serving in the Foreign Legion have gotten his Great War service medal from? From the Russians? They never issued such an award, as best as I'm aware. From the French? TTFN, ~TS

Thanks so much, Chris. I suspect he got back in for the Boer War, because by the other uniforms the dealer has on offer, he ended up in the Cameron Highlanders (with his brother?) in the Edwardian era. Is there any chance you could help me figuring that mess out? I can't buy the whole grouping, sadly (it'd be a half-dozen uniforms, three of which would be mess dress, which I don't collect) so instead I'm preserving what I can by buying all of his uniforms from his time in the KOYLI, which include his red and blue frocks. I plan on setting it up with appropriate Sam Browne equipment, field glasses, and hopefully eventually a proper helmet, as he would have worn it on field days. V/r, ~TS

Hello all, I'm trying to find anything I can about the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in the Boer War. I'm considering purchasing a uniform group to an officer in that regiment who commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in probably June of 1896. His name was RAM Ewart. I know that the Second Battalion went to South Africa and took heavy casualties, and were at Magersfontein. I also know that no RAM Ewart was killed in the Boer War. Can anyone direct me to any units histories or resources that may help me try to track down Lieutenant Ewart? I can't imagine a man who was a Lieutenant in 1896 never made it to South Africa. I realize it's possible he didn't, but I'd like to confirm or deny that this officer served or didn't serve in the Boer war before I "pull the trigger" and purchase the man's uniforms. Additional information: His father was a Lieutenant General Ewart. He also ended up in the Black Watch (could he have been related to the Major Ewart who was with the Black Watch at Magersfontein?). There was also a JS Ewart in the Cameron Highlanders, who I beleive was another relatives. JS Ewart passed the Staff College in 1891. Thanks! ~TS

Hello again all, The paper's coming along splendidly. I finally founded the anecdote I wanted for my epilogue. Robert Graves found himself shamed in a battalion mess not far from the trenches of the Western Front in 1915, in what turned out to be one of the only battalion messes of "gentlemen" officers still around. Humiliated one day by a superior, he recalled later of the incident: “There was a severe struggle in me between resentment and regimental loyalty. Resentment for the moment had the better of it. I said under my breath: ‘You damned snobs. I’ll survive you all. There’ll come a time when there won’t be one of you left serving in the battalion to remember the battalion mess at Laventie.’ This time came, exactly a year later.”[1] There's another anecdote I'm looking for, however, that I cannot find for the life of me. It's the (famous?) story of the Pathan-recruited scouts who, having shamefully lost a rifle in battle, absented themselves from their unit for a year or so, ran around the frontier trying to find it as in The Four Feathers, and finally returned it to their unit. I thought it was in John Masters' Bugles and a Tiger, but a search via his excellent index of every reference to "Scouts" or "Guides," I cannot find it. Can anyone help me find a passage describing this famous story? Thanks! ~TS [1] Robert Graves, Goodbye to All That, 1929, as cited in E.W. Sheppard, Red Coat, London: The Batchwroth Press, 1953, pages 19-23.

Thank you, gentlemen. The final footnote: [1] The prevalence of this phenomenon is debatable. At the very least, the Earl of Cardigan and Colonel Brabazon, young Churchill’s commanding officer in the 4th Hussars, had this unique accent. One can only imagine the iron discipline it took Queen Victoria’s lancer and hussars to keep a straight face as officers addressed the “other ranks.” Moving on, does anyone have any idea who William Elliott Cairnes was? I'm still at a total loss! I rely heavily on his book to make my points, as well. V/r, ~TS

Hello all, Mervyn, I appreciate the ideas. I hadn't really considered the role of officers and local troops, and especially with the incredible writing of John Masters to rely on as a primary source (albeit a not perfectly contemporary one), I think I'll have to "go there" with the paper. Pete, I think you're right on the accents. I'll put it in the paper without a citation and see if the various editors who look at it think it's notable. On the off chance I got the idea from Flashman (I've only read one of Fraser's novels, although I definitely enjoyed it), I'm pretty sure it's historically accurate. Isn't there a Flashman bibliography out there, somewhere? Another question for the group: Who was William Elliot Cairnes??? He published an anonymous account of social life in the British Army in 1900. I know he was a serving officer, and that's all I can find on him. Can anyone find me his rank and regiment? Thanks! V/r, ~TS

Hello all, I was told last week that the deadline for the submissions to the undergraduate history journal here at West Point was next Wednesday, so I decided to spend my weekend cranking out a short social history of the British regimental officer corps in the Victorian era and how their total lack of professional knowledge made them remarkably well-suited to "small wars" against irregular enemies. I'm 6,000 words in and still have a full day of writing tomorrow, having spent Friday night outlining my research. By far the most enjoyable part of the paper was writing that while the German Army officer corps spent the nineteenth century in monastic dedication to building a professional army that would have all the tools with which the lose the two largest wars in human history, the small and anti-professional British army conquered the largest empire in the history of mankind. It's also been entertaining to look at the obsessive emphasis on sport in public schools, at Sandhurst and in the regiments in the nineteenth century. As USMA abolishes the traditionally academics-focused order of merit system of branching and replaces it with a system that will allow branches like the infantry to pick their new officers with regard to physical fitness and not academic excellence (and thus far, every branch I have seen places physical fitness higher on their wish-list for new lieutenants than academic performance), I also wonder how professional the alma mater and my own Army will be in the future. But I digress. I've come here to ask for suggestions for research, potential resources, and the like. I'm sure this forum is a gold-mine of information, and I'd greatly appreciate if anyone is willing to share ideas on the British Army regimental officer corps in the Victorian era and how they were effected by social class. I will, of course, properly cite anyone who can assist me in my research. In light of that, there are two key research questions as yet unanswered by me: (1) How did the British army generally adapt to fighting small wars? They seem to have done remarkably well, despite the steep learning curve that always plagued the force. If anyone could suggest specific conflicts that best serve as examplars of how the Victorian British proved remarkably good at unconventional conflict (as opposed to their horrendous conventional performance in the Crimean and Boer Wars), I would appreciate it. While I have a pretty good knowledge of Queen Victoria's little wars, this part of my paper's the hardest to write. (2) What letter did British cavalry officers traditionally drop as part of their affected accents? I'm completely sure they did this in the 19th century, but for the life of me the letter's escaped me. Once again, I sincerely appreciate any help the forum can provide. V/r, CDT TS Allen '14 USMA West Point, NY

I've decided to hold judgement on the color until I have the tunic in person and can size it up in comparison to other Victorian examples of green and blue in the collection. I understand, of course, that colors change as old dies age. I picked up a military tailor's pattern book from 1894 in the library and started trying to identify this further. The cuff is correct for staff officers, but the rest of the uniform and the coloration isn't. The cuff is also correct for captain's on infantry mess uniforms. The pattern does conform properly to the pattern for line infantry patrols, except the cuffs. Rifle unit patrols varied by regiment, but the tunic lacks the proper shoulder boards and the five rows of frogging that would normally be correct for a rifle uniform. Also, why would a uniform likely not have any rank? While this uniform isn't anywhere near conforming to the pattern for chaplains, the service corps etc., the lack of rank or signs of it having once been there makes me suspect this may not be a line uniform at all. Thoughts? V/r, ~TS

Graham, This answers many of my questions, most importantly being that there are only four sets of frogging. i also think you're correct in it being a KRRC-affiliated unit. The jacket, however, appears to be blue. What unit in India wore this color combination? Blue with red facings on patrols? V/r, ~TS

Hello all, I just picked up a probably Victorian British patrol jacket and trousers at a price that was just too good to pass up. It is dark blue wool with four rows of frogging along the front with dropped loops and no bossing on the braids, red collar and cuff decoration, flat cloth epaulettes edged in flat mohair braid (with no rank or signs of rank), frogging up the back, and a braid trefoil knot on each sleeve (as opposed to the typical Austrian knot). While there is no tailor's label, the buttons were made in Poona (now in Pakistan), and the trousers are matching dark blue with a thin red stripe. The dealer who I purchased it from actually posted his first-run images on a thread here, where he searched for an identification: http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5655 I'm sincerely hoping the member of the forum can help with with a positive identification. To begin, I'll list the units that it has been proposed to belong to: Madras Guards (colors are correct) Poona Volunteer Rifles (est. 1887, became the 35 Poona BN in 1917 - this is mostly based on the buttons, although one of the two Indian staff colleges was at Poona) various other volunteer units etc. And next, I'll emphasize the characteristics that differentiate this from the standard 1882-pattern patrol: The braid trefoil knot on the sleeves (as opposed to the Austrian knot) Red facing on the cuffs and collar Does anyone have any idea what the uniform may be? V/r, ~TS

Hey Chris, While one will occasionally see images of foreign soldiers taken in the United States, the chances of a German soldier ending up in San Francisco are incredibly low. While the uniform wouldn't be correct for the "Black Hussars," a San Francisco militia unit at the time, or any other militia units I'm aware of, I beleive this image is of an American militiaman. http://www.militarymuseum.org/BlackHussars.html http://www.militarymuseum.org/SacramentoHussars.html Especially with the repeated references to equipment being "procured in New York," I suspect these uniforms were from Bannerman's famous surplus company, which undoubtedly occasionally sold European uniforms (or replicas thereof). I picked up at 1927 Bannerman's catalog from the library to take a look. (You would think the National Archives repository, focused on military items, located only miles from Bannerman's Island, would have all of th eBannerman's catalogs, but they just aren't here. I think it may be because Bannerman's was always a militia and Guard supplier, and the library staff here disliked Bannerman as much as the rest of the staff must have.) TTFN, ~TS

The Aussie slouch-hats are well-liked though. We've I've seen visiting Australians give them as gifts, US military personnel go wild for them. I just don't get why the US doesn't bring them back! We wore them in the pre-WWI years and they were quite popular. TTFN, ~TS

The US Army used "wheel caps" as early as the 1820's, and they were standard issue in the Mexican War. Also, here's a uniform grouping for sale from the 1840's that includes a early peaked cap. Crimean period, I guess: http://themilitarygentleman.com/ProdDetails.asp?Id=90&f=ProdList.asp|prev=true ~TS

In the modern US military, they're largely away of bragging. "Strack lines" as they're called are still popular in the US Army on the Class "B" shirt (soon to be white, worn with light blue trousers). While I have never heard of them being officially mandatory, vertical creases in the front of the shirt matches to the breast pocket buttons, creases in the sleeves and creases in the back are ironed in for inspections and by most officers and senior NCOs for everyday wear. However, the Army Combat Uniform is worn for duty everywhere but schools and certain headquarters units, and since ironing or pressing the ACU is not authorized, they are rarely seen. Strack lines are also worn by the Marine Corps and Navy. They seem to be rarer in the Air Force (which prefers just sleeve creases). V/r, ~TS

Hello all, I appreciate the advice on not cleaning them. I've decided to leave them as is, although a gentle brushing on one example has removed a lot of crud that was sticking to the silk. "Dress Regulations for the Army - 1900," which I was able to find in the library last night, says that ribbons are only authorized for officers on the khaki and white uniforms. This is consistent with what I've seen in period photographs. Like medals, the regulations indicate that ribbons are to be worn between the first and second buttons in one row. However, the regulations do allow officer to place ribbons on more than one bar, since ribbons cannot overlap. Does anyone have any idea when they were first adopted formally, or informally? V/r, ~TS

Hello all, I've never been much of a British medal collector, but lately I've picked up a few sets of Boer War and Omdurman Campaign ribbon bars, and I've realized that they're under-collected. I'd love to see any examples of Victorian-Edwardian soldiers wearing ribbon bars that anyone can share! Also, I had a few questions for the forum about ribbons... (1) What orders of dress was it appropriate to wear ribbons on in the Edwardian era? When were ribbons worn in lieu of medals? I've only ever seen them on officers blue frock coats, but I imagine enlisted men must have worn them sometimes. (2) What were the regulations governing construction of ribbon bars at various times, if there were any? I'd like to try to date some of the bars. (3) What is the purpose of miniature ribbon bars? Were they only worn by veterans? I bought a Boer War ribbon bar set off a colonel on eBay. When he saw my military address he threw in a couple of extra bars he was no longer in need of and a kind note. One of the ribbons was a rather gnarly WWII example. I noticed it was undersized, so I cut off the stitching and found that it had been hastily sewn over a "miniature" ribbon set of the 1914 Star, 1914-1918 service medal and WWI Victory Medal, with ribbons even smaller than those worn on miniature medals! I've never seen this before. (4) Does anyone have any guidance on how you clean these ribbons? A few of mine are soiled, but quite nice otherwise. I'd like to clean the soiling. I know the ink on modern, US Army ribbons is often water-soluble, so I'm hesitant to try anything. Has anyone tried it? Thanks! ~TS

I'd be one, except I've discovered since turning 18 and entering the military that there are no lodges that I have access to while I'm at my place of duty. Go figure... Especially since my place of duty is a rather well-known institution, that you'd expect would be home to a mass of secret-world-government-Masonic types! ~TS

Hello, I'd post a few additions to the thread, but unfortunately the collection is a thousand miles away. I'll add some to the thread as soon as I'm back in town, though, some time down the road. I've seen, I think, one Ottoman uniform for sale. It went for a very reasonable price, around $1000. However, they're rare enough that the National World War One Memorial Museum in Kansas City still doesn't have one - and they've been building their collection since the '20's! I suspect it's in part because the Ottoman Empire was somewhat distant, and their uniforms were somewhat plain. Some of the most sought-after uniforms are the simplest of field uniforms, because unlike dress uniforms their is no obvious reason to keep it looked away with mothballs for a century. That's why Union sack coats from the Civil War (produced in the millions) go for $30,000 and up, and why the M15 feldbluse is so hard to find. I'd own more Austrian uniforms besides my single rotten tunic if they ever came up for sale. Trawling American, French, and British eBay has yielded only one good Austrian uniform for the collection. (If anyone knows of good dealers, do tell!) I have, however, picked up Japanese, Belgian, and various other odd WWI uniforms from my sources. TTFN, ~TS