servicepub

The VRC trace their history to before the re-formation of the Militia in 1855 when they were numbered the 3rd Battalion. Based in Montreal they were never one of the wealthy regiments like the Black Watch (Royal Highlanders of Canada), or the Canadian Grenadier Guards so had nobody of wealth or position to lobby on their behalf. The VRC raised several battalions for the Canadian Expeditionary Force for service in the First World War. The death knell was probably the fact that they were not called out for Active Service during the Second World War and were finally disbanded in the 1960s.

Thought that I would share my latest Torin cap acquisition. In this case to the 3rd Bn, Victoria Rifles of Canada as well as a carte de visite of an officer in Mess Dress with his Tori cap in his lap.

The link explains this very well and uses the accurate terminology. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/pub/mn-nm-012010-eng.asp

It's just my way of manifesting my jealousy over your wonderful collection. I'll be good, I promise.:beer:

Probably because Stuart has been hogging the bandwidth.

Stuart, I don't know why you bother with these old hats when there are a thousand shops willing to sell you new hats at a fraction of the price. Do yourself a favour and pack up these dirty old things and send them to me. I'll cover the postage. :whistle:

But Stuart, I already have. It's on page 7, third paragraph, where I say "Hi Stuart". See, I remembered. :rolleyes:

And an officer's helmet to the 19th Battalion, Canadian Militia (later the 19th, Lincoln Battalion of Infantry), ca. 1880

Two more helmets. First up an example of an officer's helmet to the Corps of Guides - forerunners to the Canadian Intelligence Corps, ca.1905

Very true. The MID on his General Service Medal may be the clincher should you find multiple candidates. I would start with the Maj-Generals' listed in the OrBat link and then work my way down to Brigadiers and Colonels. No guarantee that you will be succesful but the research should be enjoyable. Clive

Try this http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/uk/8tharmyatelalamein.html and then chase down the British Generals shown.

The errors are not major but when one uses a book for a reference then the details become important. An example is that he describes the WWII CFSC for the Army Dental Corps as being 'grass green' when the colour is actually officially termed 'emerald green'. This is his interpretation of the Philips colour guide. Also, in describing the Chaplain's cap he misses the front and back seam piping. Clive

Some of Davis' identifications are incorrect so care must be taken when using this reference. Yes, there are several Regiments which still wear the Torin - the Adjutant having missed the order abolishing this cap in favour of the FSC. Clive

Most regimental descriptions are lacking in Dress Regs, although the Corps are described, and you would have to delve through Regimental Orders - with no guarantee of success. There are a limited number of colours used in military uniforms with scarlet, blue, white, Rifle Green, yellow and gold being the most predominate. Unfortunately, the permutations are almost endless. Sometimes you can relate the colours used on a Torin cap, or the later CFSC, by comparing to the approved (later) coloured Service Forage cap. My site (thanks for the compliment) is limited to WWII Canadian Coloured Field Service caps and I have at least 6 unidentified caps in my collection which are not listed in the 1943 War Dress regulations which lists all of the approved patterns. Clive

Stuart, This is my understanding also. As to the date I shall have to wade through 3-4 file drawers in the hopes of uncovering additional information. jf42 Thanks for your post. It is interesting, and valuable, to to understand the origins of these things. Clive

It shouldn't be shown as it pre-dates the scope of the site - I've just been too lazy to remove it. Of the 30+ contemporary photos of the QOR I cannot find a single instance of this cap in wear although I do have a 'standard' Glengarry as well as a common FSC. The search continues.

For more examples of the Canadian 1937-era Coloured Field Service Cap visit my website at CFSC

Ooops! Sorry to hijack the thread - perhaps I should have started a new one?

The Field Service Cap, introduced with Battledress in 1937 - shown here in serge, twill and cotton The Coloured Field Service Cap; front to rear - 17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars, Canadian Army Dental Corps, Canadian Provost Corps, all for ORs

Here are some early Field Service Caps - all Canadian Patern worn during the Boer War Medical Service Duke of Connaughts Royal Canadian Hussars

The Torin was an unofficial name and I have not been able to determine its origin. The following may clarify the terminology; The "pillbox" is correctly "round forage cap". The officers' cap that is essentially shaped like a pillbox but has a peak is a "forage cap", intended for wear with Undress Order. The "Forage Cap for Field Service" replaced the glengarry in 1874 for other ranks. This was the "Torin" shape. Years of looking have failed to disclose where the term "Torin" came from. The "Torin" cap first appears in the available regulations for officers in 1883, but may have been adopted earlier. The correct term is the "Forage Cap for Active Service and Peace Manoeuvres". In my opinion it is correct to term it a "Field Service cap" for all ranks.Our familiar FSC is correctly the "Universal Pattern Field Service Cap". One can speak of "Field Service Cap, Universal Pattern" and "Field Service Cap, Glengarry Pattern".The peaked caps are named for the order of dress. The first to appear was the "Staff Pattern Forage Cap", which is coloured and which was originally intended for Undress Order. The khaki version of this is the "Service Dress Cap", whether or not there are staff or corps distinctions by means of a coloured band. These were intended to be worn only with Service Order, except for Guards officers, who were permitted to wear the coloured forage cap with Service Order. If you look at the regulations / orders of dress after 1914, the distinctions are clear. Here are some examples; Forage Cap for Active Service and Peace Manoeuvres (Torin) Front to back - Royal Engineers, Army Service Corps, General Staff 61st Battalion (badge taken from centre-piece of the helmet plate, 62nd Fusiliers, Artillery (alll Canadian) A transitional Torin which features details from both the Field Service Cap and the Glengarry.

Hello Stuart, I may be repeating what others have stated but what the Hell! Canadian dress regs (for officers) in 1898 first mention the use of the "naval or staff' pattern (note that both terms were used). Units could apply for permission to adopt these but the trabsition (amongst officers) had to be uniform throughout the regiment. As we all know 'military uniform' is an oxymoron. In 1904 Clothing Instructions the use of the new pattern forage cap was approved for issue to ORs. There are numerous entries in Cdn General Orders authorizing units to adopt the Naval or Staff pattern and the details of welt and headband colours are often given. The Torin pre-dated the Field Service Cap and was not limited to officers. These date from approx 1880 (possibly a little later). The side flaps could be pulled down to keep the ears warm. The FSC was an improvement on this as it allowed the sides and front to form a Balaclave of sorts. Nonetheless, God help the soldier caught wearing the cap this way - in much the same way that the chin-strap on a forage cap is never worn under the chin. I will try to post some photos over the next few days. Clive

But remember, jubillee and coronation medals are the personal gift of the Crown so why wouldn't he/she present them to his/her family?

The mark located inside the first photo at the top of the thread is that of Canadian War Assets (CAW). The mark looks like a circle but it is actually open for a small bit forming a letter 'C'. The 'W' is intersected in the middle to form the letter 'A'. The CAW was set up in 1945 to dispose of military property that was considered surplus to needs and is now known as Crown Assets (formerly Crown Assets Disposal Corp). The Tam may be WWI but was still in stores in WWII. Clive

I would suggest the the date of the tunic is shown in the stamp '5/10', i.e., May 1910. This is most likely a standard Infantry tunic that has been tarted up as a stage prop and the 'museum' number is more likely an inventory number. The tunic shows the frogging of a Hussars regiment but Hussars wore blue tunics. Further, the gold braid on the colour is unlike any authorized braid that would be worn by a Sr NCO. Just my 2 cents worth. Clive