BlackcowboyBS

3 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

Thank you, Orden Heinrichs des Löwen, Ritterkreuz I. Klasse (BrH3a) am 7. März 1913. What date could that 17.10.1927 be?

As I wrote above, it is the date when the heirs of von Natzmer returned the order after his death. So on the 10.th of october 1927 the order arrived in Brunswick at the former staats kanzlei.

Here is the entry of von Natzmer regarding the knights cross 1. class of Brunswick henry the lion order with date of his bestowal. The last date is date of returning of the order due to the death of the inhabitant. And as one can see von Natzmer was born in Potzdam so he is prussian. 

I just finished an article on an iron cross 2nd class from 1813 being integrated in a golden bracelet which contains a very nice surprise. 

As soon as this article is printed, I will give you some more details here, so for now enjoy this photo! 

How many grand crosses shall be out there? Your photos aren't focussed very well, but as you allready said, the quality looks poor on what one can see. So I am more than sceptical on this sample.

unbelievable, but I often asked my self if these auctions are all real bidders. I know that these fakers work together and bid the auctions higher to lead real bidders to pay more money. One sign to recognize it, is that the bidder list is not open, so you can't follow the stream. 

5 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

I would guess somewhere in Central Asia. Kazakhstan or the like. I have not kept up with what orders those nations have created in the post-Soviet era.

Also an good idea, I have checked the orders of Kazakhstan, but I only found the following ones:

• The order of Friendship (Dostyk order)
• The order of Kurmet
• Medal of 10 years Astana
• Order of Otan
• Order of Parasat
• Order of Aibyn
• Order of Glory 
• Order of the Leopard
• Order of the First President of Kazakhstan
• Hero of Kazakhstan
• Hero of Labor of Kazakhstan
• Order of the Golden Eagle

But none of these looks similar to the one that you showed in your posting, so might not be Kazakhstan.

2 hours ago, webr55 said:

Ah! Good candidate! According to the DOA1908, he held an RAO4, Saxon LD2 and the Austrian Franz Joseph. He was head of the Kriminalpolizei Dresden at the time. So if you can confirm the Brunswick order, this should be him. 

Hello @webr55 as said before, he got the officers cross of Brunswick on 8th December 1912, see the original list from the archive of Brunswick.

What I really like on this star is that the coat of arms still shows the roots towards the Hohenzollern! Fascinating. 

I would search the middle eastern countries, the arabic or persian world for this one. The sabers do look like coming from this region. 

Does anybody knows where these medals are produced? In the past, the former king did let his medals produced by Borek in Brunswick. Well I guess Borek was the dealer and may not be the original maker of them.  

In a discussion with other collectors, this name appeared: Karl Andreas Ernst  Becker, Oberregierungsrat in Dresden! 

Well he got the officers cross of Brunswick, so it might be a good fit. 

I wouldn't want to have it, this might tell you enough.

3 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

Niedner, Otto Gustav

* 25.05.1869 in Rüdersdorf, Niederbarnim

30.07.1895 Promotion zum Dr.med. (Univ. Breslau)

16.06.1913 in den preußischen Adelstand erhoben

 

Is there any actual evidence (such as an Urkunde) that the 1939 EK 1 is his, and not another family member's, such as his son Hans Otto (*1910)?

Good question, if the EK1 from 1939 is his, he should have the repeating clasp and not the cross it self.

I can also add the following informations:

He was awarded the knights cross 2. class of the HdL in 1902, the Knights cross 1. class in 1914.

Here is what I have: Heinrich Benthagen, Avantgarde, born in Woltdorf, when he recieved the medal, he allready took his leave, so he wasn't active any more and wasn't part of the reserve!

Due to my lists von Hänisch only got the Brunswick Grand Cross of HdL without the swords! So you may want to correct your list! 

Gentlemen!!!

Okay each chapter in the third book starts with a photo of the order of the recipients like this one. then you have the list of every recipient and his status listed in the year they got this order. 

21 hours ago, webr55 said:

Very interesting - so is there any way at all to find the non-Brunswick recipients? Any rolls in the archives?

 

Here is the complete list. And yes, there are documents in the archive of Wolfenbüttel.

On 08/10/2021 at 10:43, webr55 said:

And these are the rest until 1915, from the 1916 edition:

 

Well let me state, that the list in the Hof and Staatshandbuch from 1907 maybe 1909 on only shows the names of people living in the duchy of Brunswick and not the people from outside anymore. They also only list the names of the people still alive, so these lists aren't complete! 

5 hours ago, TJLA said:

 

Hi BlackCowBoy, 

 

Yes the Brunswick Waterloo medals, I'm looking for an online resource that contains the full medal roll. Like the English Waterloo medal the rolls and other information is digitized and easily available online, I am unable to find any such resource for Brunswick. 

 

In 2012 member Nunquam retrorsum stated he had the rolls and they were working on publishing a book but he has gone completely silent despite all the interest shown. I understand I can write for each medal to the state archive, but want access to the full roll for my own research purposes. I have not even found any partial type rolls.

 

thnx

 

Well I was faced with the same topic for my books on the orders and medals of Brunswick. I thought on publishing the waterloo medal owners along to all the owners of the order Henry the Lion but decided against it, it would have meant another 250 pages or more on the names, units, etc ... I can tell that the book / lists shown in my last posting still is one of the most read lists in the archive. 

But sorry to say that, there is no digital version of it available. I might bring out an adendum to my books and maybe I should insert the list od all waterloo medal owners in it, as I have the whole list on my PC.

might be an idea to follow on. 

On 09/10/2021 at 01:43, TJLA said:

I've been trying to find if there are rolls for the Brunswick medals. Are these the rolls you are referring to? Where can I find them? Thanks

Hello TJLA,

if you are talking about the waterloo medals, then yes they still exists in the archive of the duchy of Brunswick located in Wolfenbüttel. See the photo attached.

If you are talking about medals from Brunswick in general then there are more lists to be found on nearly every medal that was founded but all at different sources. 

On 07/10/2021 at 12:20, webr55 said:

Are we sure this is a reserve OFFICER? I wonder if his military rank might have been just a reserve VizeFw or so, but that he held a very high civilian rank/status. 

Absolutely not, he could be a civilian and having a higher grade in the civil status lists. I just started with the officers, because it was easy to spot the saxonians in it. It is much harder with the civilians. 

wow just white and blue on yours Walter, Congrats on this pure bavarian beauty! I wonder why he didnt have the KDM on it, because he don't like to wear prussian stuff? 

5 hours ago, Haku said:

Major von Koenneritz doesn't fit. see ranking from 1914

Major Erich Wagner had too little on his chest in 1914. see ranking from 1914

Okay, so we need to start again. What I can tell you is, that the minature looks like the big crosses from Siebrecht, so our man got his officers cross from Brunswick before may 1912. Well this argument is only true, if the miniatures also followed the change from tail down to tail up on the guelphic horse. 

If I found the time I will have another look into my lists from brunswick, to see if I can find more saxonians in it. 

I checked my lists and at first glance I found these two officers from Saxony, if he was a military man, you might go along with these names. If he was civilian I do need a name to check it. 

• Frhr v. Könneritz, Karl 

• Wagner, Erich

Great photo Komtur! Thanks 4 that