Veteran

You are quite right. It obviously is French. Probably the badge showing membership in a local civilian orchestra or band. Worn on the lappel of a coat with the button put through the lappel button hole. Period : 1880 - 1950 or even later; Cheers Veteran

Chris Your question is understandable. The story is possibly this : although he was attached to the 42nd R?giment d'Infanterie to which he had probably been called up as a reservist in 1914, he was because of his age or other reasons in the small town of Ternas (Pas de Calais) in the Somme area. The term "en sursis" means he was temporarily "relieved" from military obligations without being struck from the Regimental roll. He was therefore considered to still be with the military, when he was wounded by shell fire from which he later died in the local hospital. Ternas was probably sufficiently close to the front line at the time to be under direct fire from the German artillery (some of their heavy guns could shoot as far as 25 kilometers or more). Now, since he was not on the front and probably not in direct miltary employment, his death was considered not to entitle his family to a war pension (victime civile), but rather like any other local resident who could have been a victim to a random bombardment on the town. Some other type of conpensation may have existed for "victimes civiles". He nevertheless seems to have rated a death notice in military papers, simply to explain why he could not turn up if he was recalled to his Regiment. Interesting paperwork and an unusual situation. It may have also existed for men who were accidentally killed or died of illness while on leave. Thank for sharing Veteran

The R?giment de Marche de la L?gion ?trang?re received the double fourrag?re (L?gion d'honneur + Croix de guerre) for its part in the Great War 1914-1918. After the war, the regiments was disbanded, and the 3rd R?giment ?tranger d'infanterie (3e REI) was its successor. In 1943, the Regiment was re-activated as the R?giment de Marche de la L?gion ?trang?re in Algeria to be part of the 5th Armoured Division (French 1st Army) and landed in Southern France in August 1944; and the men wore the double fourrag?re the regiment was intitled to from its WW1 record. During WW2, the Regiment won two further citations and palms to the 1939 croix de guerre on its flag and a US Presidential Unt Citation. Since I joined in 1944, I therefore wore the double fourragere as a member of the regiment. The two citations were not enough to entitle us to wear a 1939 fourragere as a personnal distinction. But I retained the right to wear the Blue bar of the US Presidential Distiinguished Unit throughout my later carreer as a reserve officer. Does that answer yout question ?. Best regards Veteran

Hello There are a number of websites in French. You could try to get the best form : www.zitocland.forumpro.fr an open forum with an English speaking question part. All the best

Additionnally : the "black dishonor" fourragere and BILA story is plain silly. A fourragere is a hard won distinction in the French Forces. No place for such nonsense. Period...

Michael A "colour fourragere" does not reflect the award of the Medaille militaire or Legion of honor to a military unit. It indicates the number of Army level mentions in despaches (citations) this unit received. Each Army level mention also means an extra palm on the croix de guerre attached to the Unit's flag. A "croix de guerre" (dark green with red) fourrag?re went to units which had received a minimum of two Army level mentions in dispaches M?daille militaire (yellow with green) for four or five Legion d'honneur (solid red) for six, seven or eight. A double fourragere (Legion d'honneur + Croix de guerre) went to units with twelve to fourteen mentions (2 regiments received that level : R?giment de marche de la L?gion ?trang?re and R?giment d'Infanterie coloniale du Maroc). I personnally wore this double fourrag?re serving with the RMLE in 1944/45. All men serving with a unit which received such honors wear the alloted fourrag?re as long as they are on its roll. Men who were present with the unit when the mentions in dispaches were won keep a personnal right to wear the appropriate fourragere for ever, never mind which unit they serve with later. A little complicated but that was the true significance of the fourragere wich was awarded to a number of US Army units during WW1. Hope this proves useful. Best regards Veteran

Paul Please don't parallel the Foreign Legion and the Bataillons d'Afrique. They have NOTHING IN COMMON. Except possibly in the fuzzy mind of the missinformed .... and the fact that both types of military units served in North Africa. The Foreign Legion has always been a crack unit in the French Armed Forces. Its members are all volunteers, from any nationality except Frenchmen, serving France on a contract basis. They are the successors of the Scot, Irish, Swiss, German, Italian, Hungarian, Croatian and Swedish regiments who served France from the XVth to mid-XIXth centuries. The Bataillons d'infanterie l?g?re d'Afrique were a special unit in the French Forces, where serious offenders were sentenced to serve. No one ever volunteered. If you are interested in military history and medals, the Foreign Legion certainly is the right choice. Regards Veteran

Certainly very scarce. Never seen one before. The fact that it was issued to an officer is significant. I don't know if any of the men in the ranks ever were eligible to the m?daille coloniale, or any other award.. Congratulations Veteran

Much has been said and written on the Bat'd'Af. In fact, most of the men were quite young : when a man who was serving time in a civilian prison was of age to be called up for national service, he would be sent to the Bataillons d'Afrique after he had finished his prison term. Also went to those units, the military who were repetitious offenders or law breakers, after being court-martialed. In other words, not much company for any one ! They were nevertheless employed during World War I since there were a R?giment de marche d'infanterie l?g?re d'Afrique and a Groupe de bataillons d'infanterie l?g?re d'Afrique (1er, 2eme et 3eme bataillons) among the units listed as intitled to the Victory Medal. I don't know exactly where or when. The only certainty is that they served in the North or North-East of France and in Southern Tunisia (which was their usual station). The Compagnies disciplinaire de la L?gion ?trang?re were a different proposition. They were part of the Legion itself. Men were sent to serve there when they had been court-martialed for such offenses as desertion, repetitious disorderly conduct or non-criminal faults. Military discipline was total : not the slightest fault went without retribution. Once they had served their time with the CSLE, they would go back to one of the units within the Legion to finish their contract. From what I understand, things are different now : such repetitious offenders just get kicked out. Regards Veteran

Any "Bat'd'Af" medal would probably be quite a rarity..... these "bad boys" units were seldom used as operational troups, since their officers and NCOs could not trust them very far. One would not expect many of them to earn much recognition. Cheers Veteran

Chris The reason why I would rather have an officer's or an NCO's colonial medal with a CENTRE AFRICAIN is that it would then be a GOLD BAR. They are very, very scarce and they convey the story of adventures which, in their times, were as exciting as going to the moon in the 1970s. But I can understand exactly your approach, which I also share. It was just .... if I had to contend with only one single colonaial medal Regards Veteran

Congratulations. This is a very early Chancery registration number ! Regards Veteran

Hi My "dream m?daille coloniale" would be a period medal and ribbon with a CONGO CENTRE AFRICAIN HAUT-OUBANGUI set of original clasps. Probably to an officer serving with the Infanterie coloniale or Artillerie coloniale detachment who went out to explore and conquer Central Africa. Somewhat old-fashioned, I will admitt... Greetings Veteran

As an additionnal contribution to this post, here is a typical "improved" 1917 silver croix de guerre, whose ribbon and devices are typical of the period. As you can see, one of the convincing age witnesses is the variety of stars - added as the citations were given - along with the obviously period ribbon. At the time this was bought, there was very little interest for such awards and chances that they were made up are minimal. The orignal owner of this croix de guere is unknown. Regards Veteran

Hendrik You are quite right. The IInd Empire was declared terminated on September 4 1870 after the capture of Napoleon III in Sedan by the Prussians. A "Gouvernement de la D?fense nationale" was formed at that date which took over and tried to organise the war against Prussia and its Allies, as well as the crushing of the Commune de Paris revolt. This was followed by a "Gouvernement provisoire de la Republique" headed by Thiers and later Marshall MacMahon as President. The IIIrd Republic was only formally established by Parlement (with a 1 vote majority !) in January 1875 (Constitution de 1875). A very difficult political period to understand.... even for the Frenchmen who lived through it. A rather comparable state of confusion existed between 1944 and 1947. I have tried to make it as simple as possible. Cheers Veteran

This is a very nice croix de guerre, never mind who earned it. It looks just right, with its partially faded ribbon and the variety of palms. A fine survivor of WW1 ! . Please understand my previous answer. I don't mean only airmen could have multipalms badges. It's just that they would be the obvious first thought. General Rollet's cross has the palms which his Regiment (R?giment de Marche de la L?gion ?trang?re - RMLE) had won under his command as well as whatever other citations he may have personnally earned before he received that command. Since the RMLE was one of the two most decorated regiments in the whole French Forces... (the other Regiment being the R?giment d'Infanterie coloniale du Maroc - RICM - also a unit normally stationed in North Africa at the time). I doubt he would have thought gilt palms would do : as you can see from that fine photography, he really felt orders were meant to be worn in full. The broken prongs you mention were a frequent occurence. That is why so many are found sewn to th ribbon, as was often the case for the British mention in despaches palm. Regards Veteran

Hendrik's information is basically right. I might simply add or change the following : Restoration really was 1814-1830 with the short 100 Days period (March 1815) when Napoleon came back from the Island of Elba to be sent to Saint-Helena after Waterloo (June 1815). During that period the King Louis XVIII was in exile in Gent. The IIIrd Republic was formally founded in 1875 and probably one should consider 1940 as its end. That year, the French State was established by the Government of Marshall P?tain who had received full powers from the French Parlement. The 1943-1947 period is extremely difficult to describe. But it certainly was not the IIIrd Republic anymore. Except for these small details, I fully agree with Hendrik, who obviously has a remarkable command of the recent history of France. Congratulations. Veteran

When the pins of the palms broke they could be sewn. Or they might even be sewn simply to make them safely attached to the ribbon. No special orders on that count. A CdG with that many palms (if it is was really earned by whoever had it prepared) could possibly be a flyboy. Some of the fighter pilots had up to 20 palms + ... Hundred of thousands of men earned a CdG during the Great war. All kinds of combinations of stard and palms existed. I am afraid the question as to how many generals received one will remain unanswered. Usually an officer received a citation from an authority of higher command. Therefore, it could well be they received Divisionnal or Army Corps or Army citations, with the according ribbon device. But this is part guesswork on my part. Frankly, I don't think French collectors mind much about that. They would rather be interested in knowing who was the recipient of a given cross, with the attached citations. Hope this does not sound discourageing. Best regards Veteran

This last picture is the MONOBLOC AUX CANONS type, also known as "Versaillaise" since it was also given to the troups who crushed the "Commune de Paris" battle in May 1871. These were regular army under the orders of the French Government whose seat was in Versailles, a few miles west of Paris. It usually is rather poor workmanship, and really quite valuable. Possibly the second rarest type after the Presidence type shown by Bison. This third type was in use for a short period after 1870-71, the early years of the IIIrd Republic. Congratulations, a very nice badge Veteran

The "Generals'type medals" are simply very well made badges, mostly during the 1870-1940 period (IIIrd Republic). In fact, they were made by a number of private firms, jewelers and makers of orders and decorations, and openly sold to whoever felt like having a rather better m?daille militaire. This is perfectly straighforward in the French system. The term "Generals' m?daille militaire" comes from the fact that the m?daille militaire can only be bestowed upon a general (or a Marechal de France) who won significant battles as a commander in chief. He also had to have previously received the Grand Cross of the Legion of honor. These general officers would probably buy one of the well made badges, hence the nickname. After WW2, both General Eisenhower and Sir Winston Churchill received the M?daille militaire as the supreme military award France could give them. Chances are they were presented with the finest types that could be found. But they might also have received a basic Mint-manufactured badge. All this is, of course, confusing when you also know that only NCOs and rank and file are eligible to this award, either for extreme valour (the equivalent to a British DCM) and as a long and efficient service award (the equivalent to th British MSM). Regards Veteran

Extensive vaccination against typho?d fever was conducted in 1915 among all troups, mostly during rest periods (bivouac, in French). A small number of cases of intolerance to the vaccin were reported, some with extreme agitation. This man may have been one of the cases that went delirious and got out of hand, running out of the infirmary and drowning in a near by pond or river. A sad end for a "poilu" who certanily did not do anything deliberately wrong, since his death report mention that he died for France (Mort pour la France). The Memorial website is a wonderful research tool. Regards Veteran

I fully agree with Bison. The array of medals worn by this gentleman is puzzling... to say the least. The "M?daille de la R?sistance" should also be worn before the Croix du Combattant; the badge worn at the button-hole indicates he belonged to one of the Forces Fran?aises de l'Int?rieur (F.F.I) units during the maquis or/and liberation of France. Nevertheless a very typical portrait picture of the late 1940s, I would say. Regards Veteran

Hello As an adjunct to the story, the French considered the 369th, 370th, 371st and 372nd U.S. Infantry Regiments as part of the French forces. As such the four "colored" infantery regiments ("r?giments de noirs am?ricains") are listed as regular recipients of the French Victory medal, along with such prestigious units as Escadrille LaFayette and the American automobile Field Ambulance. They were well treated by the French who gave them a chance to show their fighting value and an equal share in their awards. Best regards Veteran

Claudius The auction sale in Basle (Switzerland) was conducted by UBS AG on Nov. 4/5. It was a general collection with a superb catalogue featuring 69 Russian pieces, in a world wide collection. Some excellent orders went sky high. You will find the catalogue and results on www.ubs.com/numismatics The Morton & Edent catalogue has just been published for their sale in London, to be held Nov. 26. It concentrates on Russian and USSR Medals, Orders, Badges and Coins. Over 430 items on offer, beautifully illustrated. It should, in my mind, be a very significant test for the international market. www.mortonandeden.com Hope you find this useful Regards Paul

This is a good award, especially when made in silver gilt. French collectors are, quite rightly, becoming addicts to the group of ministries/ government departments awards such as this one - which was awarded for continuous and exemplary services with the Reserves in all three Services. Like the British TD with several bars -for a commander such as this one. They sometimes come up at auction and I would expect 200 Euro as a minimum and as much as 350/400 if the bidding was particularly active.