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    Richard LaTondre

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    Everything posted by Richard LaTondre

    1. What an outstanding presentation! You have done so much in this area that You should be presented with a medal. When is your book coming out? Thank You, Richard
    2. Congratulations and thank you for one of the greatest (and most unique) websites in cybespace. You should be proud of your accomplishment. Cheers Richard LaTondre CWO, USMC, (Ret)
    3. Thanks Nick. You are doing a great service on this web site. Best Regards, Richard
    4. There is one of these items (first class silver merit medal) for sale on Spinks. Richard
    5. Good Morning Nick. You have really hit an area of contention. I agree with you that this medal is the medal for Military Merit. 58 x 54 mm with pavlonia leaf suspension. Harry Mohler also wrote of this order and in earlier writings suggested that "this award was made in accordance with the recipients former precedence in rank within the Manchu Court." It was a short-lived order and little is known concerning the decoration itself. It was founded in 1912 by Presient Yuan Shikai and this insignia of rank was worn above all other awards and took precedence over all other decorations (?).This order was established in six classes. The Grand Cross Order was intended only for presidents and former presidents. It was also awarded to military leaders who had actively participated in the rebellion. I believe the ribbon (37mm) to be correct. I have much more to say about this decoration. Richard
    6. Thanks for the excellent series of articles, But please remember what I always reccomend. Look at the reverse. That is the giveaway! It is mostly unfinished. unpolished, and/or unplated. It rarely has the correct hardware and the seals/engraving is incorrect. This should be one of the first steps in the examination of suspect medals! Richard
    7. There are numerous reports of Uboat activity in the Lawrence. Though primarily German, there were several Japanese as well check Wikipedia and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_St._Lawrence Richard
    8. Why is it so rare then? That is because by 1942 when this medal was established, turn of events such as the Battle of Midway had made the China Incident somewhat irrelevant to what Japan was then facing. The purpose of national mobilization had shifted from the China Incident and had escalated to a Greater East Asia War. It was not the time to sit on laurels and gloat over past glories when things were now going downhill for Japan. I hardly think that things were going 'downhill' September 26th 1942 when Edict 658 promulgated this medal. At that time Japan had captured/invaded Burma, The Philippines,Borneo, Alaska, all of North China down to the south of Shanghai, the Solomons (Guadalcanal), Kualo Lumpur, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Netherland East Indies, New Guinea, Ceylon, Plus sinking a major portion of the US Fleet at Pearl Harbor. They attacked Darwin Australia as well as Sydney. They even sank an allied ship in the St. Lawrence River. They dropped incendiaries on Oregon and shelled the coast of California. Japan was riding the crest of an euphoric wave of victory that had no precedent! I also do not see any relationship between this medal and the Great East Asia War Medal that was established two years later. So in 1944, when they instituted the Greater East Asia War medal, the edict for both China Incident Medals were amended at the same time and for the China Incident Commemorative Medal this amendment excluded awards to the following two groups. 1. Those who had been awarded the China Incident War Medal 2. Those who made significant contributions to the China Incident since April 29th 1940 and who qualify for the Greater East Asia War Medal. I would have thought that this award would have been given to thousands upon thousands of Japanese civilian contractors, administrators, contract workers and others needed to assist in this war effort. If so, where are they? question 2, above is not quite clear to me. Best Regards and thanks for your input. Richard
    9. As I promised here are Peterson's notes on 'Chinese' medals: Some Ambiguous Chinese Orders When James W. Peterson wrote his dissertation “Orders and Medals of Japan and Associated States”, it immediately became the ‘bible’ for many collectors as it was the first and probably only, scholastic treatise on the subject and also became The Orders and Medals Society of America’s Monograph Number 1. Some material that he had written on the subject was omitted for the final printing and in order to bring to light his views on some more or less controversial awards, I have decided to publish these notes that dealt with this subject in the hopes that it may clarify some of the ambiguity involving some awards such as The Order of United Glory, Order of the Brilliant Jade, Decoration to Japanese Comrades, and Peaceful National Commemoration Medal. The notes that follow below are in Mr. Peterson’s handwriting: Reorganized National Government of China Following the Japanese invasion of China in 1937, local administrations were set up in the Japanese controlled areas of China. The Provisional Government of the Republic of China was established 14 December 1937 in Peking and the New Reformed Government of the Republic of China was set up in Nanking on 28 March 1938. On 30 March 1940, these governments were merged into the Reorganized National Government of China under the traitor Wang Ching-wei. This regime claimed to be the true national government of China, and used the Kuomintang flag. On 9 January 1943 this government declared war on the U. S. and Great Britain. Order of United Glory Tung-Kuang –Hsun-Chang (the translation is my own JWP) According to one source, this order was established 14 March 1943 in a special class ans classes 1 thru 5. According to a Japanese encyclopedia, it was established 5 March 1943 in 9 classes “to commemorate the return of the national government to Nanking on that day.” Another Japanese reference book gives the date of establishment as 25 February 1943. The order is of typical Chinese design and manufacture, as is the sash and also the presentation case, which is of brocade silk. It is very rare in any class. The badge of the Special Grand Cordon has a 5 point star in white, in a red ring bearing nine gilt stars, in a blue ring with nine white clouds, on an 8 point star of narrow rays, on 8 large double-pointed rays enameled alternately and it is suspended from a gilt cloud design which is suspended from a gilt ball-tipped 5 point star. The sash is 100mm unwatered raw silk(?), red with 19mm yellow edges. The breast star is (blank) mm, gilt, and has a (blank) mm silver 5 point star on white in a red circle bearing 9 gilt stars, in a blue ring bearing 9(?) white clouds on an 8 point star of 32 double-pointed, white enameled silver rays, superimposed on 8 large double-pointed gilt rays enameled alternately blue and white, and with (blank) rays in the angles. The badge of the First Class Grand Cordon is 82mm, heavily gilded, and has 9 gilt stars on a red medallion, in a blue ring with 9 white clouds, on an 8-point star of narrow beaded silver rays, on a larger 8-point star of narrow beaded silver rays on a larger 8-point star of narrow fluted gilt rays,, and is suspended from a gilt cloud design which is ib turn suspended from a gilt ball-tipped 5-point star. The sash is 100mm unwatered of the usual Chinese type, red with 19mm white edges. (Another specimen has been seen which has the sash of the Special Grand Cordon). The breast star is 93mm of the same design as the badge without the suspension. A lower class badge, probably the 3rd class, is 79mm gilt, similar in design to the First Class but with only 7 stars on the medallion, and has the same cloud and star suspension. The reverse has characters giving the name of the order. Order of the Brilliant Jade Tsai-Yu-Hsun-Chang. It appears that this order, which was established 2 December 1933 by Nationalist China, was adopted and awarded by Wang Ching-Wei’s regime, and probably for this reason seems to have been suspended after 1943 by the Nationalists. According to a Japanese encyclopedia it was the 2nd ranking order, to Chinese only with classes to foreigners without class and different ribbons; in 9 classes, the 1st class with red and white ribbon, 2nd class white and red, 3rd class blue, 4th class red, white and blue, 5th class white, red and blue, 6th class red, white and blue, 7th class blue and red, 8th class light red, and 9th class the Military Order Pao-Ting. The Military Order of Pao-Ting (Precious Tripod) was established by Nationalist China in 1929. Decoration to Japanese Comrades This decoration which was probably awarded by Wang Ching-Wei’s government, is a 57mm silver 12 point star of 60 narrow rays on which is superimposed a smaller 12 point star on 72 red enameled rays, and in the center of this is a man’s head, full face in silver on silver, in the center of a blue and white Kuomintang sun emblem (as on the Nationalist flag). The reverse is plain, with in the center an inscription in 4 vertical lines of characters, “National Government, Japanese Comrades assistance, China Nationalist foundation commemorative medal, conferred by Chief of State.” The badge is suspended by a ring on a 33mm watered ribbon of equal blue/white/red, on an ornamental 4 x 41mm silver clasp. This decoration is very scarce. Peaceful National Foundation Commemoration Medal These very rare medals should also probably be attributed to Wang Ching-Wei’s government. The medal is approximately 36mm silver, circular with an ornamental figure on each of the 4 sides and in the center a monogram of 4 characters on a blue medallion which is encircled by a silver wreath and an ornamental border. The ribbon is about 36mm of red plush silk with a bue and white Kuomintang sun on a blue circle in the center. At the top of the ribbon is a silver clasp with seal characters “Peaceful National Foundation Commemorative”. A lower class is in silver and gilt without enamel on a plain red, plush ribbon with the same clasp. A medal which was probably awarded by the government is about 50mm of dark bronze, with on the obverse a blue and white Enameled Kuomintang sun encircled by two sprays of flowers. The reverse has an inscription. The ribbon which was made made in Japan, is 37mm watered of equal purple/white/red/white/purple. JWP I believe that Mister Peterson was faced with a dilemma. Are these truly Chinese medals, or are they Japanese medals that were given to the Chinese by the Japanese Occupational authorities? What is the answer?
    10. I have a copy of his handwritten notes on the Chinese Medal Book he was planning to publish plus his article on 'some ambiguos Chinese Medals" If desired I could post them. Richard
    11. Dear Mr. Ulsterman, It appears I owe you an apology. You have a memory that is working. Forgive me for suggesting it never happened. I do that quite a bit these days much to the consternation of my friends. Please forgive me. Richard www.thegoldenkite.com
    12. Well my old age must be catching up with me as I certainly missed that thread. This would be a very difficult specimen to reproduce due to the intricate relief engraving of the blossoms on the obverse of the planchet. I have never seen a reproduction of this medal but I suppose they will attempt anything when it commands a high price. A bigger problem in reproducing one of the 'war medal' series in the intricate design of the suspension swivel which allows the planchet to swivel 360 degrees. I think these medals may have been introduced durring the early puppet state period in occupied China by the Wang-Ching-wei clique. www.thegoldenkite.com
    13. was going through my miscellaneous Japanese collection and ran across this beautiful Japanese China Incident Commemorative medal. Peterson says: "This extremely rare medal was founded by Imperia; Edict No. 658 of September 26, 1942, for award to those that made outstanding contributions to the war effort in China, but who were not eligible for the China Incident War Medal. As this medal is practically unknown in Japan, and almost anyone could be eligible for the war medals, it seems probably that this was intended as a reward for Chineses collaborators." The questions that I have, are two-fold. Has anyone ever seen a case for this medal, and why would it be practically unknown in Japan? Richard
    14. The reverse of most fakes tell the story Richard www.thegoldenkite.com
    15. Neither have I. I think these medals need a little more research as well as the Order of the White Eagle, The Order of the Golden Lion, The Order of Bravery (also known as the Chang Tso-lin Order/Wu Pei-fu Order). I will go back to the 'old notes' Richard
    16. Because of the lack of information on this medal I am republishing an article that I wrote for the OMSA website a while ago: Edit postReport this postReply with quote Re: Order of United Glory - 4th Class by USMCGungHo » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:57 am Some Ambiguous Chinese Orders When James W. Peterson wrote his dissertation “Orders and Medals of Japan and Associated States”, it immediately became the ‘bible’ for many collectors as it was the first and probably only, scholastic treatise on the subject and also became The Orders and Medals Society of America’s Monograph Number 1. Some material that he had written on the subject was omitted for the final printing and in order to bring to light his views on some more or less controversial awards, I have decided to publish these notes that dealt with this subject in the hopes that it may clarify some of the ambiguity involving some awards such as The Order of United Glory, Order of the Brilliant Jade, Decoration to Japanese Comrades, and Peaceful National Commemoration Medal. The notes that follow below are in Mr. Peterson’s handwriting: Reorganized National Government of China Following the Japanese invasion of China in 1937, local administrations were set up in the Japanese controlled areas of China. The Provisional Government of the Republic of China was established 14 December 1937 in Peking and the New Reformed Government of the Republic of China was set up in Nanking on 28 March 1938. On 30 March 1940, these governments were merged into the Reorganized National Government of China under the traitor Wang Ching-wei. This regime claimed to be the true national government of China, and used the Kuomintang flag. On 9 January 1943 this government declared war on the U. S. and Great Britain. Order of United Glory Tung-Kuang –Hsun-Chang (the translation is my own JWP) According to one source, this order was established 14 March 1943 in a special class ans classes 1 thru 5. According to a Japanese encyclopedia, it was established 5 March 1943 in 9 classes “to commemorate the return of the national government to Nanking on that day.” Another Japanese reference book gives the date of establishment as 25 February 1943. The order is of typical Chinese design and manufacture, as is the sash and also the presentation case, which is of brocade silk. It is very rare in any class. The badge of the Special Grand Cordon has a 5 point star in white, in a red ring bearing nine gilt stars, in a blue ring with nine white clouds, on an 8 point star of narrow rays, on 8 large double-pointed rays enameled alternately and it is suspended from a gilt cloud design which is suspended from a gilt ball-tipped 5 point star. The sash is 100mm unwatered raw silk(?), red with 19mm yellow edges. The breast star is (blank) mm, gilt, and has a (blank) mm silver 5 point star on white in a red circle bearing 9 gilt stars, in a blue ring bearing 9(?) white clouds on an 8 point star of 32 double-pointed, white enameled silver rays, superimposed on 8 large double-pointed gilt rays enameled alternately blue and white, and with (blank) rays in the angles. The badge of the First Class Grand Cordon is 82mm, heavily gilded, and has 9 gilt stars on a red medallion, in a blue ring with 9 white clouds, on an 8-point star of narrow beaded silver rays, on a larger 8-point star of narrow beaded silver rays on a larger 8-point star of narrow fluted gilt rays,, and is suspended from a gilt cloud design which is ib turn suspended from a gilt ball-tipped 5-point star. The sash is 100mm unwatered of the usual Chinese type, red with 19mm white edges. (Another specimen has been seen which has the sash of the Special Grand Cordon). The breast star is 93mm of the same design as the badge without the suspension. A lower class badge, probably the 3rd class, is 79mm gilt, similar in design to the First Class but with only 7 stars on the medallion, and has the same cloud and star suspension. The reverse has characters giving the name of the order. Order of the Brilliant Jade Tsai-Yu-Hsun-Chang. It appears that this order, which was established 2 December 1933 by Nationalist China, was adopted and awarded by Wang Ching-Wei’s regime, and probably for this reason seems to have been suspended after 1943 by the Nationalists. According to a Japanese encyclopedia it was the 2nd ranking order, to Chinese only with classes to foreigners without class and different ribbons; in 9 classes, the 1st class with red and white ribbon, 2nd class white and red, 3rd class blue, 4th class red, white and blue, 5th class white, red and blue, 6th class red, white and blue, 7th class blue and red, 8th class light red, and 9th class the Military Order Pao-Ting. The Military Order of Pao-Ting (Precious Tripod) was established by Nationalist China in 1929. Decoration to Japanese Comrades This decoration which was probably awarded by Wang Ching-Wei’s government, is a 57mm silver 12 point star of 60 narrow rays on which is superimposed a smaller 12 point star on 72 red enameled rays, and in the center of this is a man’s head, full face in silver on silver, in the center of a blue and white Kuomintang sun emblem (as on the Nationalist flag). The reverse is plain, with in the center an inscription in 4 vertical lines of characters, “National Government, Japanese Comrades assistance, China Nationalist foundation commemorative medal, conferred by Chief of State.” The badge is suspended by a ring on a 33mm watered ribbon of equal blue/white/red, on an ornamental 4 x 41mm silver clasp. This decoration is very scarce. Peaceful National Foundation Commemoration Medal These very rare medals should also probably be attributed to Wang Ching-Wei’s government. The medal is approximately 36mm silver, circular with an ornamental figure on each of the 4 sides and in the center a monogram of 4 characters on a blue medallion which is encircled by a silver wreath and an ornamental border. The ribbon is about 36mm of red plush silk with a bue and white Kuomintang sun on a blue circle in the center. At the top of the ribbon is a silver clasp with seal characters “Peaceful National Foundation Commemorative”. A lower class is in silver and gilt without enamel on a plain red, plush ribbon with the same clasp. A medal which was probably awarded by the government is about 50mm of dark bronze, with on the obverse a blue and white Enameled Kuomintang sun encircled by two sprays of flowers. The reverse has an inscription. The ribbon which was made made in Japan, is 37mm watered of equal purple/white/red/white/purple. JWP I believe that Mister Peterson was faced with a dilemma. Are these truly Chinese medals, or are they Japanese medals that were given to the Chinese by the Japanese Occupational authorities? What is the answer? USMCGungHo OMSA Member Posts: 84 Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:28 pm Location: San Francisco Bay Area Private messageWebsite
    17. I was just informed that exactly what I need is currently for sale. http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w71120210#
    18. Hi Nick, That is a positive input Thanks. I have some Japanese medals, I should check the time period, that appear to have been issued, case and all with no hardware whatsoever. The ends of the cravat or neck sash were cut on the border of the red stripe for a distance of about 7 inches (18 cm), and they were tied behind the neck. As to your comment about my drawers, have you been talking to my ex? She is over there you know. So be on alert! Richard www.thegoldenkite
    19. Thanks for the response, Sometimes the negatives create a positive! I guess common sense tells one that there would not be a great big market for such items especially, as you suggest, the country no longer exists. Thanks Richard www.thegoldenkite
    20. I think that it would be of service for some of us if we had a directory of services available for collectors of medals that are in need of certain replacement items or services such as enamel restoration etc. I was going through some of my miscellaneous drawers yesterday and noticed that I had a beautiful third class order of the auspicious clouds that had become separated from its ribbon (neck cravat) and attachment accessories. I would think that there would be dealers in Japan (or elsewhere) that might sell such items. Or maybe they would be available at the Osaka mint (where this one originated) I do not know of any such sources. Are there any that could be available to us? Thanks for reading this. Richard www.thegoldenkite.com
    21. THE CHANG TSO LIN ORDER ? It appears that the questions surrounding this medal have not as yet been resolved. In an article that appeared in the Medal Collector in 1967 “The Chang Tso-Lin Order” By Alfred A. Miller, he states that the order was instituted by Chang Tso Lin, the so-called dictator of Manchuria. Miller states that “. . . the exact title of the order is not known. In February of 2002, Henry Hong, OMSA 6685 wrote in “More On Chinese Warlord Awads”, JOMSA Vol 53 No. 1, that Chang Tso lin, in 1902, was recruited by the Manchu government and offered a commission as an army officer. In 1912, following the successful overthrow of the Ching dynasty, The president, Yuan Shih-Kai, appointed Chang Tso-Lin as the Commander of the 27th Division with the rank of Lieutenant General. By 1916, Tso-lin had worked his way up to Army Commander and Governor of Fengtian Province. Two years later he became Chief Officer of Manchuria and assumed the position of Chief Commander Warlord of the Fengtian Faction. The central government of the Republic of China as well as individual warlords issued various awards such as the Order for Bravery. This order has been attributed to both Chang Tso-lin and Wu Pei-fu the powerful warlord of central China. In February 2011, Guido Muhlemann a well noted collector and member of OMSA wrote in the JOMSA forum, subject “The Golden Lion/Extreme Bravery Medal (http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6390&goto=newpost): “Although right at the moment I don’t have any information clear enough in order to ascertain what kind of warlord medal (or order) this one is, I also think that it has probably not been issued by Chang Tso-lin (Zhang Zuolin) as I have NEVER seen himself wearing that kind of medal (Or order) on any photograph I have seen of him. (Actually, I have NEVER seen somebody wearing this medal (or order) on any historical photograph I have at my disposition from the times of the early Republic of China and warlord era). . . . so, there still will be a lot of research to be done regarding this medal (or order). Henry Hong was over to my house this past weekend and he had nothing new to add concerning this medal I wrote to another noted Chinese medal collector who is a friend of mine, King Kwok, who currently lives in Hong Kong and asked if it were issued by Wu Pei-fu or Chang Tso-lin. His answer: “ I have no information on who actually issued this medal. If I must make a guess, I would say Wu, as he was one of the warlords who liked to award medals of his own style, i.e. not the central ones like the Golden Grain or striped Tiger” As you can see, there are many questions that still must be resolved in regards to this medal. I think that it could be a government issue as opposed to a ‘warlord’ issue’ because it consists of a Breast Star, and at least two maybe three,lower grades or classes. I cannot recall any warlord issues that have more than one class or grade. I certainly could be wrong. Remember I thought the animal in the center was a dragon! Does anyone have a picture of the mysterious “Golden Lion?” I examined the reverse of the specimens in the Mohler collection at Stanford University and they all were smooth with no writing, stamps or seals. Richard
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