Jim Maclean

I had to have a bit of a chuckle at the first post as rolling tobacco in the R.N. was known as "Tickler". It wasn't purchased through the NAAFI but from "slops", the clothing store and was only available in shore bases. It was the hand rolling version of Blue Liner tailor mades. Certainly available in these tins in 1969-70 when I joined and I think went to 2oz conventional tins in the mid 70s. Seagoing ships had brand name cigs and baccy. In shore bases you were issued three red stamps per month each entitling you to 100 cigarettes or 4ozs of baccy. Seagoing ships got six blue stamps per month. In 1969 300 cigarettes cost the princely sum of 8 shillings.

Thanks Leigh, doing a Google search throws up references for Sergeant of Drums, Drum Sergeant etc. No real good explanations though. Seems regardless of rank he carried the appointment of Drum Major and was thus referred to.

Just for info here's the trio that sparked my interest. Left to right:- Sergt.-Major Hunter, Capt. & Adj A. L. Moulton-Barrett and Bandmaster R. J. Shepherd. I must find myself a copy of this album but where ?

Leigh, what a superb find, worthy of a museum. Following Narinder Sethi's post to his website I had a look at his album of the 1st Dorsets. Many of the names on your piece are pictured in the album. The album is a superb reference to the uniforms and badges of the time and the photography very good considering the date. In my search for confirmation of wear of the '1906 wide wreath Dorsetshire cap badge' I thought I had the enigma cracked with the photo on page 24. The Sgt. Major is wearing the pre 1901 two tower badge, the Adj sitting beside him has the badge worn up to amalgamation and the Bandmaster looked to be wearing the wide wreath. I emailed Narinder who graciously sent me a lovely enlarged scan of the photo. Alas it turns out that the Bandmaster is indeed wearing the normal badge. Close, much closer but no cigar yet. Of course every avenue of search has it's side streets and ths one is no exception. On the left of this photo captioned 'Regimental Instructors' is Sergt.-Dr. Clarke. It's interesting to see he is wearing what I always thought was the Officer's forage cap badge from the 1890s. He's the only one bar a Sergeant in the band wearing one. He's shown with 'The Drums' and must be what we'd now call a Drum Major. What would his title have been then. Sergeant of Drums? Also why is his uniform so different? The album can be found here. The rest of the site is well worth a look as is searching for Fred Bremner the photographer.

It's Radio Operator 1st Class (Able Seaman rate)

I'm no great defender of defence cuts, our "current" war is in a landlocked country. Apart from stand off launches of missiles what use is the RN in such a war? As to the Falklands it would only take one Type 45 down there, I can't imagine the Argie Air Force getting past that even if they all flew at the same time. We cannot rely on any of our "allies" if we get embroiled in another Falklands episode. We go rushing to the aid of the US whose Pres at the time said something like "if you're not with us, you're against us". Can we expect support .

The above description on diggerhistory is a bit confusing unless you know what you're looking at first. The crown on the belt plate should I think be correctly be called the "Crown of the Garter on the Star of India" often referred to as the Indian Crown or the flat topped Victorian crown. It's found mostly on Victorian cavalry badges and a couple of infantry badges, the HLI being one of them.

If you do a bit of googling you'll probably find out what the Penstemon and Wilton were.(Found some for you ) Ton class have been minesweepers, being small ships they would not have their own pay department. The would also operate as squadrons which would come under a shore base for pay. Your Grandfather would thus be on the books of HMS St Angelo for pay but actually be serving on HMS Wilton. Penstemon was a Flower class Corvette built in Birkenhead. Eaglet was the RNR base at Liverpool, presumably he served in the first commission so being a small ship would come under them for pay and accomodation whilst standing by her. Cormorant was a 19th century vessel reduced to harbour service by WW2 and would have been their next pay base. Penstemon then moved to the Med and came under St. Angelo at Malta. Looks like he then had some well earned shore time before joining Wilton again in the med and under St. Angelo. HMS Wilton, gives you an idea of what Grandad was up to. Penstemon, bottom pic is Valetta with I think HMS St. Angelo in the background.

I've just noticed a rum induced faux pas in an earlier post of mine that I can't edit. Just for forum historical accuracy the Radio Electrical branch wore the lightning bolts with the letter R in the centre. The Control Electrical branch wore CE and the Ordnance branch wore OE. The WAFUS sorry FAA have similar but with different letters, AR, AL I think but can't be sure.

The advancement through the branch is REM2, REM1, LREM, POREL, CREL. That's Radio Electrical Mechanic Class 2 & 1, Leading Radio Electrical Mechanic, Petty Officer Radio Electrician and Chief Radio Electrician. Hope this helps a bit, it's biased towards my time in the 60s and 70s. WW2 designations may well vary.

OK the badge makes sense now, you forgot to mention the crown above the device . I'm not that well up on Pinkies badges but I think this one would be passed for CPO indicated by the star below. He's a POREL in the photo, the branch was known as mechanics up to LREM and electricians as PO and above. Looks like a MiD oakleaf and I'll stick my neck out and say an Africa Star ribbon above it with a rosette for the 'North Africa 1942-43' clasp. In typical RN fashion of wearing them high up under the lapel I can't make anything else out. The gold badge is for No1 uniform(optional on No2) and the red badge worn on No2, 3 and 4 dress. Worn on the right arm. The stripe is a Good Conduct Badge awarded for 4 years service, worn below his PO's badge.

It's an electrical mechanics badge. R for Radio C for Conrol and O for Ordnance. What doesn't sound right is the six pointed star underneath, I would expect it to be on the top which would be an REM1 Ny chance of a pic?

The thing that stood out was the Quebec crest that changed from 2 to 3 fleurs de lys.

December 9th 1939? Lovely flag :beer:

If you look carefully at his service history you'll see that on the 24th October 1906 he was discharged shore and pension. This was a day after his 38th birthday. This would have given him 20 years reckonable service from the age of 18. You'd have to research the service required for pension, it's currently 22 years and has been for a long time. Service up to the age of 18 is not reckonable for pension. Your man apparently joined as a Boy 2nd class on 11th July 1884. On discharge it looks as though he joined the RNR for 5 years, this I believe was not an option at the time. He was then called up again at the start of WW1, you'll notice he joined again at Vivid (still today existing as the RNR unit at Devonport). He then after a few days went to HMS Jupiter, a Majestic class battleship. After a year on that it was back to Vivid for 4 months then to HMS Grive??? can't find any references to that but he was there for a year and a bit and then back to Vivid. Then demobbed Jan 1919.