Christophe

Hi Christian, Sorry, but no time to do long research right now, but what is the evidence (or literature) that this order has been scratched ? Do you have this info at hand ? Thanks in advance. Cheers. Ch.

Christian, Of course, it is a copy... Look at the diamonds on the laurels, they have disppeared... Cheers. Ch.

I should have precised that Marshal Rola-Zymierski has been awarded the Order of Victory on 9 August 1945. Ch.

Hi Ivan What would you say of Marshal Michał Rola-Żymierski ? Here is his profile in Wikipedia : "Michał Rola-Żymierski was born as Michał Łyżwiński in Krak?w on September 4, 1890. In 1910 he started studies at the law faculty of the Jagiellonian University. In 1914 he joined the Polish Legions and fought with distinction on many of the most important battlefields of the Austro-Hungarian Eastern Front. After the Pledge Crisis of 1917 he retired from the Austro-Hungarian army and returned to Krak?w, where he finished his law studies and graduated from the Krak?w Trading School. In 1918 he joined the reborn Polish Army and took part in the Polish-Bolshevik War. He initially commanded the II Infantry Brigade and then was promoted to the commander of the prestigious Polish Legions 2nd Infantry Division. After the war he was sent to Paris, where he graduated from Ecole Superieure de Guerre. Upon his return he was promoted to General. Żymierski served in Warsaw as the Deputy Chief of Administration of the Polish Army. During the coup of 1926 he fought on the losing government side. In 1927 he was court-martialled and found guilty on the politically motivated and trumped-up charges of bribery and embezzlement, and was demoted to private first class, expelled from the army and sentenced to 5 years in prison. Upon his release in 1931 he was canvassed by the Soviet intelligence and became a secret member of the KPP. After Stalin's decision to disband the Polish Communist Party in 1938, Żymierski emigrated to France. However, shortly after the outbreak of World War II he returned to Poland and in 1943 he became the deputy commander of the Gwardia Ludowa and then (since 1944) the commander of Armia Ludowa. As such he was promoted by the communist-backed PKWN back to the rank of General and became the commander-in-chief of the Polish Army fighting alongside the Soviet Union (the Polish Armed Forces in the East). Minister of defence in Provisional Government of Republic of Poland (Rząd Tymczasowy Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej, January to June 1945). On May 3, 1945, by order of Stalin he was promoted to the rank of Marshal of Poland. Since 1946 Żymierski was the head of the Commission of State Security. He was responsible for repressions against the former resistance fighters, members of the Polish 2nd Corps and non-communist politicians, as well as for usage of the Polish Army against the citizens of Poland in the infamous Action Wisła. Until 1949 he also held the post of Minister of National Defence. In this year he was replaced by Polish-born Soviet Marshal Konstanty Rokossowski, who received the rank of Marshal of Poland and held his office until 1956. As an effect of stalinist purges organised in Poland by Bolesław Bierut Żymierski was arrested in 1953. However, he was released in 1955 without any charges. After the end of stalinism in Poland he held various posts, including head of the National Bank of Poland (between 1956 and 1967) the honorary head of the ZBoWiD (Society of Fighters for Freedom and Democracy, an organisation of Polish war veterans). He was also a member of the Polish United Workers Party and after Jaruzelski's introduction of martial law in Poland Żymierski also became the member of its Central Committee and of the Front of National Unity. He died in Warsaw on October 15, 1989. He was the last pre-WWII officer to hold a rank of Marshal of Poland." Cheers. Ch.

Close-up. Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

In 1974, the Order of the October Revolution got a 5th rivet. Why ? Easy to understand... Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

This one has been made in Leipzig... Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

There were many safes in all these Ministers' offices. Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Last one... Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Including repros of Imperial medals... Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

And more... Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

More... Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

I have a couple of basic questions for our Members living in Russia or often travelling there. In many shops (specifically in Moscow, but maybe not only there...) you can find repros of Imperial Russia's Orders and Medals. These are sold as new, no doubt about this, and are not destined to fool anyone. They are made in what I would call semi-precious materials... My questions : 1. Why to manufacture such copies ? 2. Where and by whom are they manufactured ? 3. In your opinion, who buys them ? And for what reason ? 4. Are they only "souvenirs" for foreigners (some museum shops sell them...) ? I would be interested in knowing more about these... Cheers. Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Correct, Christian. I have corrected it. Filip, sorry for this... Cheers. Ch. PS : Ivan your turn, now...

Here is an updated version of the Summary. Summary Here are all the topics dealt through our questions and answers of this little Quiz. Are shown below : * Subject / question dealt - Number of the post where has been asked the question. Awards / Orders & Medals * GDR - Title Hero fo the GDR - #153 * GDR - Order of Karl Marx - #359 * India - Ashoka Chakra awarded to Soviet citizens - #131 * Mongolia - Medal Cosmonaut of the MPR - #110 & #601 * Russia - Order of Merit for the Country - #441 * SSR Georgia - Order of Red Banner of Labour - #222 * USSR - Honorary Revolutionary Weapons - #874 * USSR - Order of Lenin - #88 * USSR - Order of Stalin - #243 & #1228 * USSR - Order of Suvorov - #1341 * USSR - Orders with Serial Number 001 - #585 & #1366 * USSR - Medal for Bravery - #170 * USSR - Medals for Defense / Capture / Liberation - #25 * USSR - Krupskaya Medal of Merit in Teaching and Education - #625 Personalities (Awards) * France - Marcel Lef?vre's awards - #186 * Mongolia - S?khbaatar, Dandzan & Choibalsan - #1242 * USSR - Vasily Blyukhner - #1366 * USSR - Vice-Admiral Georgi Kholostyakov - #1341 & #1345 * USSR - Marshal Georgi Zhukov's awards - #2 & #1366 * USSR - Recipients #1 of some of the USSR major orders - #585 & #1366 * USSR - Recipients of several classes of major awards of GPW - #1388 Personalities (Identification) * Austria - Commander Alexander L?hr - #1131 * China - Li Zensheng - #1279 * Egypt - Hakim Abdel Amer - #278 * Germany - Klara Zetkin - #30 * India - Subadar Birta Sing Gurung - #290 * Romania - Henri Coanda - #1119 * Romania - Maj-General Mihail Lascar - #928 * Romania - Hermann Oberth - #1059 * Russia - Valery Gergiev - #352 * Russia - Pyotr Nesterov - #854 * Russia - Admiral Fedor Ushakov - #81 * UK - Winston Churchill - #780 * UK - Baroness Clementine Spencer-Churchill - #329 * USA - Henry Morgenthau Jr - #932 * USSR - Sultan Amet-Khan - #574 * USSR - Commander Vasili Arkhipow - #1065 * USSR - Georgiy Baidukov - #1004 * USSR - Snr-Lieutenant Vicktor Belenko - #1095 * USSR - Lavrentyi Beria - #944 * USSR - Alexander Buchin - #426 * USSR - Marshal Semyon Budyonny - #743 * USSR - General Vassily Chuikov - #20 * USSR - Yevgeni Dolmatovski - #1271 * USSR - Vasily Grosman - #1266 * USSR - Lt-General Kuzma Gurov - #718 * USSR - Lt-General Ignatii Karpezo - #236 * USSR - Mikhail Katukov - #1396 * USSR - Alexandr Kollontai - #376 * USSR - Marshal Ivan Konev - #66 * USSR - Nikita Khrushchev & friends - #623 * USSR - General Yakov Kreiser - #695 * USSR - Nadezhda Krupskaya - #1128 * USSR - Igor Kurchatov - #979 * USSR - Lenin, Trosky and Stalin - #920 * USSR - Nikolay Masalov - #504 * USSR - Pyotr Masherov - #752 * USSR - Vsevolod Merkulov - #252 * USSR - Sergey Mikhalkov & family - #878 * USSR - Maria Oktiabrskaia - #1141 * USSR - Lieutenant Os'kin - #1196 * USSR - Lyudmila Pavlichenko - #1050 * USSR - Zina Portnova - #490 * USSR - Nina Potsova - #302 * USSR - Alla Pugachova - #267 * USSR - General Aleksandr Rodimtsev - #735 * USSR - General Isaac Salzmann - #533 * USSR - Svetlana Savitskaya - #1046 * USSR - Professor Otto Schmidt - #564 * USSR - Marshal Boris Shaposhnikov - #772 * USSR - Georgi Shpagin - #249 * USSR - Konstantin Simonov - #1307 * USSR - Maj-General Nikolai Stakhanov - #986 * USSR - Marshal Joseph Stalin - #732 & #1200 * USSR - Fedor Tokarev - #1303 * USSR - General Matvei Vainrub - #708 * Yugoslavia - General Milan Nedic - #1418 * Yugoslavia - General Konstantin Popovic - #671 * Yugoslavia - Marshal Josip Tito - #364, #603 & #1226 Historical events * 1942 - Last defender of Brest Fortress - #847 * 1942 - Operation Uranus - #955 * 1943 - Battle of Neretva - #1411 * 1945 - Capture of Vienna - #1345 * 1969 - Czechoslovakia Hockey Riots - #515 * 1979 - Visit of French President in Berlin - #891 Architecture / sites * Baku - Monument to Kirov - #386 * Berlin - Check Point Charlie - #164 * Berlin - First Soviet Parade Tribune - #1327 * Berlin - Palast der Republik, Honecker's office - #1313 * Minsk - Monument to Victory - #618 * Moscow - Central Museum of the Great Patriotic War - #518 & #648 * Moscow - Fountain of the Friendship of Nations - #1233 * Moscow - State Kremlin Palace - #522 * New York - USSR Pavilion at the 1939 International Exhibition - #205 * Prag - Monument to Stalin - #537 * St Petersburg - Statue of Lenin - #46 * Stalingrad - Fountain "Playing Kids" - #230 * Stalingrad - Great Patriotic War Memorial - #60 & #995 * Sutjeska - Tjeniste Monument to Battle of Sutjeska - #665 * Vienna - Monument to the Red Army - #553 Aircraft, weapons, military equiment... * IAR-95 "Spey" fighter - #955 * KV-1 tank - #826 * Mig 15 - #896 * Obyekt 279 tank - #940 * Sergei Mironovich Kirov tank - #1105 * TB-3 & I-16 aircraft - #1035 * Tupolev 144 - #1204 Other topics * Dogs & Military Leaders of WW2 - #648 * Gagarin's car - #460 * Iran, Serbia, Venezuela & International Community - #915 * Operation Solo - #804 * Psychotronic weapons - #1082 * Red Army's ranks (Senior Marshal of Communications Troops &Senior Marshal of Engineering Troops) - #581 * Soviet defectors - #1165 * SOXMIS (Soviet Mission in West-Germany) - #902 * Fyodor Vidayev + Kursk submarines - #1285 * "The Watch That Went To Moscow" - #309

Again, a few stats : This small game has now been launched more than 19 months ago now (on 1 Nov. 2005), and since : * 121 questions asked, * with 1,428 answers, * This quiz has been viewed more than 13,700 times. * 33 Members of the Forum played, and 26 correctly answered at least 1 question : Nb of good answers : * 22 : Christian (Zulus) * 18 : Christophe * 10 : Bryan (Soviet) * 8 : Simon (Red Threat) * 6 : Belaruski and Jim (JimZ) * 5 : Carol I and Ed (Haynes). * 4 : Auke (Ferdinand), Franck (Knarf) and Wild Card. * 3 : Andreas (Alfred), Ivan (Piramida) and Kim (Kimj). * 2 : Chuck (in Oregon), Gerd (Becker), Jan (vatjan) and Order of Victory. * 1 : Dan (Hauptman), Darrell, Daredevil, Dave (Navy FCO), Dudeman, Filip (Drugo), Rick (Stogieman) and Steen (Ammentorp). This is a great achievement. Thanks to all for your participation. Now, let's continue to have fun with the 122nd question... Ivan's!!! Ch.

Ivan (Piramida), Your turn, now... Cheers. Ch.

Montgomery's one from the Imperial War Museum in London. Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

A real one 'unissued" from the Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow. This similar view to some posted by Ilja allows comparison. The assembly of the different parts does not seem of the same quality in the one from the Russian Forum. The screwplate looks also "curious"... Ch. Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Other view of the same "repro". Cheers. Ch. Pic : Collectrussia

Ilja, Do we know where these pics are coming from (before the Russian Forum...) ? To whom is supposed to belong this Order ? I find it curious, as this order does not seem of the same level of quality as other "real" we have seen. In my opinion (maybe I am wrong), looks like a very good "museum copy" (let's call it like this... ). Better than the very good copy for sale at Collectrussia, but not good enough as a "real" one... Moreover, these pics look like having been taken in an auction... But, maybe am I ony paranoid... That's why it would be interesting to know to whom belonged this Order... Attached is a pic of the (very nice) one currently for sale at www.collectrussia.com Cheers. Ch. Pic : Collectrussia

Interesting, because in this case (I did not think about foreign Army Generals ...) our theory about SN does not fit anymore. Eisenhower's one should be SN 13... Cheers. Ch.

Ilja, Very nice and interesting document!! Where is it coming from ? Thanks for posting it. Cheers. Ch.

I have two remarks / questions : 1. Has anyone already seen another pic of such document ? I'm surprised these appear only in this book... 2. Whose document is it ? I seems awarded to a Army General. So, could be the one of the Army General Antonov. Except if at the end of the War, some Marshals of the USSR were only Army Generals, but I doubt (to be checked)... If we look at the complete list of awardings of this Order, and if we take the following bets : * the docs and orders have been awarded very shortly after the Ukaz. * One order, one doc. * they have been awarded in following the sequence of the docs : doc SN 1, before doc SN 2, itself before doc SN 3, etc... Whose document is it ? It seems to confirm it may be Antonov's one. He has been awarded the Order "SN 10", and the doc is SN 11... In this case, Timoshenko would be SN 12 (awarded the same day). But the name visible on the doc (if I'm not wrong, because the quality doesn't help...) looks more like Timoshenko.. Here is the complete list with dates : Soviets : * ZHUKOV, Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgi Konstantinovich. . Awarded twice, 10 April 1944 and 30 March 1945 * VASILEVSKY, Marshal of the Soviet Union Alexsander Michailovish. Awarded twice, 10 April 1944 and 19 April 1945 * STALIN, Joseph Vissarionovich. Awarded Twice, 29 July 1944 and 26 June 1945 * ROKOSSOVSKY, Marshal of the Soviet Union Konstantin Konstantinovich. 30 March 1945 * KONEV, Commander of Troops, 1st Ukrainian Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Ivan Stepanovich. Awarded 30 March 1945 * TOLBUKHIN, Commander of Troops, 3rd Ukrainian Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Fedor Ivanovich. Awarded 26 April 1945 * MALINOVSKY, Commander of Troops, 2nd Ukrainian Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Rodion Yakovlevich. Awarded 26 April 1945 * GOVOROV, Marshal of the Soviet Union Leonid Aleksandrovich. Awarded 31 May 1945 * TIMOSHENKO, Marshal of the Soviet Union Semyen Konstantinovich. Awarded 4 June 1945 * ANTONOV, Commander of General Staff of the Red Army, General of Army Aleksey Innokentevich. Awarded 4 June 1945 * MERETSKOV, Commander of 1st Far Eastern Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Kirill Afanasevich. Awarded 8 September 1945 * BREZHNEV, Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet and General Secretary of the Communist Party Leonid Iiyich. Awarded 20 February 1978. Revoked in 1989. Foreigners : * EISENHOWER, General of the U.S. Army Dwight D. Awarded 5 June 1945 * MONTGOMERY, Field Marshal Bernard Law. Awarded 5 June 1945 * MICHAEL I, King of Romania. Awarded 6 July 1945 * ROLA-ZYMIERSKI, Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Army, General. Awarded 9 August 1945 * TITO, Commander of the Yugoslav People's Liberation Army, Marshal Josip Broz. Awarded 9 September 1945 Ch.

Order of Victory, I appreciate. Many thanks. Will look at them. Cheers. Ch.