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    demir

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    Everything posted by demir

    1. Thanks Dave, Please tell us how we can find out a fake UN Turkish medal, where to look, the Turkish Korea writing or a sign on the medal etc. In this forum there are some articles which explaines how to understand fake medals, Mecidis or Osmanis or other Ottoman medals. All the best
    2. Hi, I did not see any copy Turkish UN Korean War Medal. Even the medals of the red ribbon ones are not copy as far as I know, only original ribbons are replaced with the red ones. The new version of the UN Korean English War Medals are on sale and they can be easily noticed. (pictures attached both original and new - new with box ) demir
    3. Also GMIC member JBFloyd says that there is an Italian version.
    4. For other country medals please check http://gmic.co.uk/in...ar&fromsearch=1
    5. Thanks Ulsterman, Brett, Please check my Korean War medals collection: http://gmic.co.uk/in...ar&fromsearch=1 Under the UN command, 39.000 troops served from Australia, Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Ethiopia, France, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Philippines, South Korea, Thailand, TURKEY, Union of South Africa, United Kingdom and the United States. Denmark and Italy provided medical support only. There is no Turkish red ribbon UN Korean War ribbon. Some people claimed that Turks do wear the white and blue ribbon of the UN because it resembles the Greek colours but there is no Government or Miltary decree or regulation about not wearing it. The red ribbon is a good marketing tool for an American company named m...... The real Turkish language UN Korean war medal is shown below. I have all original Koren UN W.M except the Spanish issue. All the best demir
    6. Hi, Here is a group of Ottoman Officers or Cadets. Army, Navy and Cavalry. Please check the belt buckles different styles. In the picture of the 4 officers; the one on the right back side who wears black uniform has white uniform in the bigger group of 7. Officer (7 group) sitting front right is the same person on the front right in the group of four and he is a doctor or pharmacist. Officer sitting at the left is Cavalry. The one on his left is engineer. Is the civilian who wears a fes (fez) (4 group) is the same person who may be the engineer? The group with the TWM and their friends with European style hats and clothing is very interesting. They also wear the ribbon of the TWM and Gallipoli style hats (Enveriye). demir
    7. Dear Avsar, Yes I know as I have mentioned these concernes of mine in my earlier thread. The main reason why I bought this bar was the value of the medals on it seperately. Now I have 3 medals 1. Iron Cross 2. Hicaz railway 3. Life saving I used the ribbons for the medals which they belonged and add real ribbons from my stock on the above mentioned medals. All the best demir
    8. demir

      Tugra

      Thanks this explains the difference in Fr. Sedlatzek Tugras. BB&Co. has also different Tugras. So, if, are they also ...? demir
    9. Hi Rick, I think in the Mecidi Order case the dullness of the silver base give the shiny buds diamond look from a distance.
    10. Hi, The quality is the silver is tested by the Ottoman Mint ( Darphane-i Amire ) by getting a sample from the silver base. That is the reason of that scratch. The order is orignal not fake as far a I see from th picture. Please look at the small sign (sah / shah) (meaning: pure) (silver hallmark) on the star under the red crescent suspension piece. You will see this sign time to time on the obverse, but usually reverse. This has it on both sides. Your second picture shows The "Darphanei Amire" and on top smaller "Sah" (shah) hallmarks. demir
    11. demir

      Tugra

      Dear Mahoni, I am unbeliavebly happy to see this lovely collection , and beautiful presentation cases. I am also a little bit jealous! Congragulations, hope that we can find more too add our collections. Is it possible to post bigger pictures of the Tugras on Slatzeks? One has a block Tugra, the other has a Tugra which shows emaille through it. (I call these kind of Tugras "telkari" All the best demir
    12. Hi, I asked the seller, but did not receive a reply so :angry:
    13. demir

      Tugra

      Terry is right. If it had been a Turkish Manufacturer then E.S would have been the old Ottoman script (Arabic letters) instead of Latin letters. demir :blush:
    14. page 2
    15. GENTLEMEN, I VISITED A FRIEND OF MINE TODAY IN HOLLAND. I PHOTOCOPIED SOME DOCUMENTS. ( AS SOON AS I FIND TIME I WILL SCAN THEM AND PUT THEM ON GMIC FORUM- SOME ARE GERMAN) HE ALSO HAS THE BOOKLET BY DR. KURT-GERHARD KLIETMANN PUBLISHED IN 1976. SEE COVER demir cover and page 1
    16. demir

      Tugra

      Hi, This is a good point. Either BB&Co also used the official package (red carton box) or he was able to receive the original box. But I believe since he is an aristocrat, a better quality TWM was given to him in the official red box. (I hope ) demir
    17. TURKISH ALSO
    18. demir

      Tugra

      THIS IS A VERY GOOD DETAILED PICTURE (THANKS AGAIN ), IT WILL BE EASIER TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE "RESAD" IN THE TUGRA AND "EL GAZI" ON TWM. demir
    19. demir

      Tugra

      Hi Uwe, Thanks for the better picture. I hope other gentlemen from the forum supply the ones which they have. Thank you again and best wishes. demir
    20. TUGRA OF SULTAN V. MEHMED RESAD Mehmed han bin Abdulmecid el-muzaffer daima (Resad) Mehmed han the son of Abdulmecid ever victorious (Resad)
    21. HELLO, HERE IS SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE OTTOMAN SULTAN TUGRAS AND EXPLANATION OF SULTAN RESAD'S TUGRA. PLEASE CHECK YOUR TWM TUGRAS AND THE ORIGINAL TUGRA OF SULTAN RESAD. WHO CHANGED HIS TUGRA ON HIS SEVENTH YEAR OF REIGN (1333) 1914. I HOPE THIS WILL HELP. ALL THE BEST demir Tugras In Ottomans (www.tugra.org) In Ottomans some viziers in borderline states were permitted to use tugra of the sultan for important and political matters depending on the far distances. This measure lasted upto Kemankesh Kara Mustapha Pasha and ended in his period (year 1640-43) (1). All of the following definitions in historic Ottoman documents are equivalents of tugra: “tevki-i hümâyun” “tevki-i refî” “tevki-i refi-i hümâyun” “nişân-ı şerif-i âlîşân-ı sultanî” “tuğrây-ı garrâ” “tuğrây-ı garrây-ı sâmi mekân-ı hâkanî” “nişan-ı hümâyun” “tuğray-ı meymun” “misal-i meymun” “misal-i hümayun” “nişan-ı şerif-i âlîşan” “alamet-i şerife” (1). It is observed that great viziers, state viziers and seigniories used tugra-like signatures (panche-claw-) in official documents. The emerging date of these signs and whether they were used before Ottomans is unknown. Panches were written in Arabic letters on over-right, mid or down-side of the document depending on the importance of the subject person. Panches are seen at left side of the documents in Otoman documents with western languages. As the difference, panches include only one curve. Double curves could be only in Tugras. Panches left their role to seals in mid 19th century (1). The earliest Ottoman tugra belongs to 2nd Ottoman Sultan Orhan Gazi. Two documents bearing this tugra are discovered (2). A tugra belonging to first Ottoman Sultan Osman Gazi has not been encountered yet to this date. So there were 36 Ottoman Sultans but 35 sultan tugras. (Note: we are informed that a coin bearing - Osman bin Ertuğrul bin Gündüz Alp- is found) It is accepted that the tugras passed to Ottomans from Great Selcuks via Anatolian Seljuks and seigniories (1). The tugras were used on various places and objects throughout Ottoman Empire, they became a form of Ottoman-Arabic calligraphy and after completing its official role, became the possession of history (3). Today it is kept alive by calligraphers for artistic purposes. Initially tugras were used on official documents (e.g. fermans: order of sultan) to give formality, but later on they are seen on coins, flags, stamps, passports, official monuments, official buildings, war ships, mosques and palaces as a symbol of sovereignty (1). The tugra, on it’s own, it’s peculiar to the Turks. The form of the tugra is peculiar to itself. Neither is anything similar to the tugra, nor is the tugra similar to anything else..(4). While preserving the form of the familiar tugra; to reconcile the name of the sultan with this form is a difficult art. To view the evolution of tugras with repeating and changing parts from Orhan Gazi’s to Sultan Vahideddin is very interesting. In this state the complete series of Ottoman Tugras resemble a film fragment of 600 years of an art. With the serious symbolic meaning, the tugras are seen at the top of documents not at the end... (4). The first 20 tugras of the series are a topic of history of calligraphy without a significant artistic value. But the tugras of Mehmed the Conqueror (7th sultan) and Suleiman the Magnificient (10th sultan) should be excluded from tis statement because they are summits of first 20 tugras. Although the word “tugra” comes from earlier times than Ottomans, and similars were used in documents of previous Turkish states, Ottoman tugras has no common sites with formers other than name similarity. The writing style of the words “Orhan” and “Osman” in the tugra of the second Ottoman Sultan Orhan Gazi formed the skeleton for subsequent tugras (3). The size of the tugras over documents were harmonious with the text conditions. Placing flowers or pseudonym of the sultan were introduced in later periods (1). After the tugras evolved as a monogram, the calligraphers entered the artistic dimension and tried to write better and better tugras. Other than tugras for sultans, verses from the Holy Quran, hadiths, prayers and the names of individuals etc. were written in the form of artistic tugra pictures. After acceptance of the tugra of a sultan, its content and form was static throughout his sultanate. Of course there were small differences between tugras from one hand to another. Finding the owner of the tugra on an official Ottoman document is very helpful in determining the approximate date of the document. So much so that nuances within a sultan’s own tugra over time can often provide a date within a particular reign (3). It is widely accepted that the most excellent tugra among all tugras is the tugra of Sultan Abdulhamid II written by master calligrapher Sami Efendy. Professor Ugur Derman calls this tugra as “sultan of tugras” (5). References 1- Uzunçarşılı İ.H. Tuğra ve pençeler ile ferman ve buyuruldulara dair. Belleten, Sayı: 17-18 s. 101-157; 1941. 2- Orgun Z. Tuğralarda el-muzaffer daima duası ve şah ünvanı, şehzade tuğları, Mehmed II’nin tuğra, imza ve mühürleri. Türk Tarih Arkeologya ve Etnografya Dergisi. Sayı V. İstanbul, s. 203-220; 1943. 3-Umur S. Osmanlı Padişah Tuğraları. Cem Yayınevi. İstanbul,1980. 4-Boydas N. Osmanlı Tuğralarına Eleştiri Açısından Bir Bakış. http://yayim.meb.gov...giler/143/2.htm 5-Derman, Uğur M. Tuğralarda estetik. İlgi mecmuası, sayi: 33, s.16-24. 1982 PARTS of a TUGRA 1-Stand: The base of the tugra that includes the main text (the names of the sultan and his father, the appellations and the prayer “ever victorious”. 2-Eggs: (Beyze; Arabic: egg): Two ellipsoid curves on the left side of tugra. 3-Tughs: Three extensions at the upper part, like the letter “elif” in Arabic. They are not always the letter “elif”. Sometimes they are not a letter. Pennant like curves beside the tughs are called “zulfe” (Arabic: fringe). 4-Arms: two parallel arms starting from the eggs and running to the right side of the tugra. In some tugras the pseudonym of the sultan may be seen at the upper right area. Two eggs (Beyze) and three tughs are found in an evolved tugra. If the text content of the tugra does not provide these needs, additional unrelated figures may be included in some tugras. These are used to keep the classical form of the tugra and to provide similarity with earlier examples. They have no meaning but are for artistic effect to complete the form (3).
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