joelhall

as some of you may have read on my other post my eyesight is suffering a bit at the moment whilst i wait for another operation to correct it. i am bidding on a copy of an rk on ebay, to use as a display piece (keeping very expansive originals locked away), and have emailed this seller, asking is the detail clear, three piece etc. (i.e. not a cast lead poorly detailed copy). my question is, is this a fairly decent copy, so wont make my display look too cheap and tacky, or are there some more acceptable ones i could easily find? let me know what you think. thanks for your time guys:) joel http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...cTODAY.m238.lVI

i agree with this. the sharpness of details is not great and the beading is poorly defined in places and uneven in size particularly on the upper arm, where it is more noticable. im sure that this would not be the level of workmanship tolerated from third reich craftsmen. also i cannot understand what the purpose of this new construction would have been. if the maker had moved away from the standard approved method, surely this would be in response to some kind of problem, such as shortage of materials? if that were the case, it would involve new machinery pats for construction and lets not forget that the one piece would use more material overall. think about the thin frames soldered together compared to this solid thick piece. in my mind that defeats the object, and of course it would still be finished the same so why not simply use a different raw material in the original manner (as was done). personally i would pass on these pieces, as i just cannot see the evidence of authenticity. joel

surely thats simply because you couldnt influence the decision makers regardless. it would be the average disillusioned soldier who you would target - like swing voters with electoral campaigns. sorry but i beg to differ with you all... im more swayed by these being post-war east german creations. would it not make more logical sense that after the control of the east by communists and the horrors of the holocaust had come to light not only to a civilian population, but also to a very bitter enemy who now controlled the people, that maybe these were made to shame veterens? perhaps they used left over frames and created the cores as some sort of moral justice to former soldiers, ss, sailors, pilots etc, in the new part of the soviet union? a bit like white flowers given to conchies in world war 1? the morale of right wing folk wouldnt just have been something to crush before may '45 and it would affirm in peoples minds just what their german 'heroes' had done in the name of the reich. just my opinion but i think it makes a little more sense than being for wartime propaganda - that would only further enrage germans on the eastern front who were fighting a 'sub-species' and cared not whether they were committing 'crimes' (as they saw it) against them. far more demoralising for a defeated enemy, especially after losing to an inferior enemy. kicking them when theyre down so to speak...

good for a complete amateur:) sorry guys but i like to amuse myself reading sellers guff haha. of course there is a serious side to this though... right on all counts i believe, although til my next eye operation its hard for me to tell details by photos (which has caused no end of upset when trying to id things for a while now:(), so hopefully somone can clear up whether fake or not?? (in fact it took me several tries to read your reply haha) the spange seems to resemble certain well made re-enactors/museum pieces sold by a well known store the us, and the warning bell for the cross came when i read "Originally made in three parts - a backing plate, a central core and front plate, this type of medal is the most valuable but, as the war progressed and materials became scarce, the medal was massed produced as a single forging and sadly, issued on the same basis - more probably as not, as a morale booster" so im guesing this is a single piece rather than three parts, but like i said with photos im a tad crap at the moment however the originality is besides the point which i wish to make, which is how people get scamed on auctions (and not always raw beginners). this sale is just an example i picked, and i apologise if its genuine and the seller is here (like i said though thats besides the point), but here goes... the fact they dont belong together, buy it now for a grand, and the fact that the seller has told us about iron crosses rather than the item in question, it all adds to the suspicion - any "serious collector" already knows the background. indeed only the serious collector would wish to parts with sums of money such as that for items. buy the piece not the story and all that. but its always nice when people describe things we can se a picture of haha. oh and rather than a formee or maltese its a cross patee but maybe thats just splitting hairs! i like to amuse myself by checking out sellers sales pitch, and see what tricks they use REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ITEMS ARE GENUINE OR NOT -blurry photos (which we all know by now) or only one view of the item -high buy it now prices to make people think things are worth more or more in demand than they actually are (like here) -and of course writing genuine in bold letters as often as possible (sounds bad but it works) -including a brief history of the piece (as here) rather than the actual item in question -pretending they dont know about an item (my favourite) -sob stories (my grandfather just died and heres some things i found he brought back from the war...) -lighting - again sounds silly but its an effective tool to hide flaws -including a genuine item along with a fake -bright pretty colours -making up fakes with fake and original parts - done with edged weapons so ive heard ive not long been bidding on auctions, but these are just some of the tricks ive seen used. just a lesson in what not to fall for. anyone got any others?

just for fun, how many things wrong can you see with this auction... check out the price too;) http://uk.three.ebid.net/perl/auction.cgi?...&mo=auction