Ed_Haynes

Absolutely, William.

My gamble on the research was:

1- If it doesn't come back, I'll know the chances of it being good increase.

2a- If it does come back, at least I'll know what it was awarded for.

2b- And I'll know that the group was bad.

2c- But I'll know.

3- And now I know and I am not at all unhappy.

The initial "group" has been disassembled (something that gnaws at me, but it this case was an ethical and historical necessity).

The whole family.

1- Order of Gallantry, type 1, 1985-87 (#1247). Awarded to a Soviet, Vladimir Yurevich Loginov. See http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12313&st=24 -- very close to "Red-Star-quality".

2- Order of Gallantry, type 2, 1987-92 (#1407). Much lower quality.

3- For comparison: The Soviet Order of the Red Star (the inspiration for this award, after all) to Senior Warrant Officer Valentin Nikolaiovich Kubasov -- see http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12356 -- for services in Afghanistan. Number 3795082.

And, finally, the fourth class, for 5 years.

This second (?), red-black-green ribbon was an incredibly common PDR Afghan ribbon and, so, it shows up on all sorts of things (both in Afghanistan and beyond) on which it does not belong. Glance at dealers' sites.

A variant third class which, to be honest, I cannot place within my current understanding of the award.

The third class, for 10 years.

The one showing the reverse is, of course, on the earlier (?) ribbon.

The second class, for 15 years.

The first class, for 20 years.

The reverse. The medal is the same, regardless of ribbon.

I think I may finally be getting these things sorted out.

For 25 years (no class indicated), on the two ribbons seen. I think the unbalanced red, blue, and white one (that has a "Cuban" feel to it) is the first ribbon (perhaps 1980-87?) with the red, black, and green ribbon being later (maybe 1987-92?).

The reverse is where the answers lie. I think. The medals are dated, numbered, and as at least a part of the lower legend (which I have having trouble deciphering) there is a number (indicating, perhaps, some sort of annual something?).

Here are five:

1337 (= 1958 CE) - 41 in center - apparently no number in legend

1340 (= 1961 CE) - 43 in center - "3" in lower legend

1341 (= 1962 CE) - 44 in center - "4" in lower legend

1342 (= 1963 CE) - 45 in center - "5" in lower legend

1345 (= 1966 CE) - 47 in center - "7" in lower legend

I think I am reading this right?

To be quite honest, I have no idea what this royal Afghan medal is. I call it the "Anti-Aircraft Medal" due to the obverse image.

And, maybe not ribbon bars, but close enough. Badges for military police and court police. (64 mm long.)

And, actually, a few in cloth.

1- Order of the Saur Revolution (first type), Faid Djamanudin Afghania

2- National Medal of Ghazi Muhammad Akbar Khan, Literacy Medal

3- Medal of Ghazi Muhammad Ayub Khan, State Medal of Malali the Heroine of Maiwand

4- State Medal of Mullah Meshach the Learned, Long Service Medal

I shudder to think what happened to the recipients of these awards after the Soviet pull out.

Many are, amazingly, still there, some still serving in various armed roles, others wanting to help, but prior party membership is an impediment.

And a few singles.

--- ???, Order of the Red Banner

--- Medal for Distinguished Military Service, the same but narrow

--- ???, ???

--- 10th Anniversary of the Saur Revolution, State Medal of Malali the Heroine of Maiwand

All with the same tin and safety-pin reverses.

Oh, yes, the reverses. Here they are:

I stand to be corrected but isn't being Jewish a faith rather than a nationality?

I suppose you meant he was a Russian Jew right?

Jim

You are right, of course, Jim. But, as the categories used in the USSR functioned, it was a "nationality". It appears that way on documents all the. See, for example, "Bad Boy" Supyan -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3728

Those are the first awards from Soviet Afghanistan I have ever seen. Are there any medals in your collection?

Yes, Paul. And lots more now. See:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12313

First to surface from a bunch just in, some lovely (bizarre) PDR Afghan ribbon bars. Order of mounting is, well, flexible. Just a few of these plastic wonders.

1: Medal for Excellent Service, Medal for Excellent Service, Order of the Sun (?); Long Service Medal, Long Service Medal, Long Service Medal

2: Order of the Red Banner; Medal for Excellent Service, Medal for Distinguished Military Service; Medal for Gallantry, 10th Anniversary of the Saur Revolution, 70 Years of Independence (?)

3: ???; ???, Medal for Friendship between Peoples (?), ???; ???, Order of the Star, Long Service Medal; Medal for Excellent Service, Medal for Gallantry, 70 Years of Independence (?); 70 Years of Independence (?), 10th Anniversary of the Saur Revolution, Long Service Medal

4: 10th Anniversary of the Saur Revolution, 70 Years of Independence (?)

Much to learn. And more to come.

So, Charles . . . are you planning on setting up a breeding facilty? I'd like to adopt one of the litters.

So even the monuments get plundered these days?

They all claim to...

Still do . . . .

In response to a PM from Gordon, I wrote the following. I am NOT an expert on US awards or awards policies, so I throw this out for discussion.

I think it is really messy for the US these days -- in terms of awards as well. Now, more than ever, there seems to be little "system" in the system. There are, for example, massive discrepancies between the ways that the various services make awards (Air Force very freely, the Marines not at all, with the Army and Navy in between). All efforts at standardization and review seem to be blocked by the guys with stars on their shoulders.

In general, if you can generalize, the ArCom is a good boy and "Oh you heard that shots had been fired" award. Not having one is rather like not having an Iron Cross by 1918. The BS is for shots being fired in your general vicinity (I think the blanket award to all who get any infantry/general/medic combat badge still pretty much holds). For allies, an ArCom is like a junior LoM (rank too low) and the BS a combat award. Clearly, the standards seem higher for allies than for US forces, but you would sort of expect that.

The ability to award a combat "V" to both the ArCom and the BS (and, for that matter, to the Air Medal) too just makes it worse. So, there's just being there, and being there and having heard that shots were fired somewhere, and being there and getting shot near, and being there and getting shot at, and really being in combat, and being in combat and doing something brave, and . . . MY BRAIN HURTS!!!!!!!!!! Add to this the dimensions of rank and branch of service and the commander's mood of the moment . . . !!

Add to this the fact that the US has never much liked the idea of giving awards to allies, so it tends to happen outside any realm of conscious policy. BUT, especially in the current mess, the US wants to cherish the fiction that it has allies and friends, . . . !!! Also, the closer you serve to US forces, the more likely to gain anything (but I guess that's obvious).

Does this help at all????

For the critique of all . . . ????

These days, it seems the medal is used pretty frequently as an award for allies and friends, where the standard seems to be rather higher than the standards employed for US troops.

The set.

A shame that, unlike their "little brothers", they weren't numbered. And, by the way, the first two are screwback, the third pinback. Varieties or just a fashion statement?