webr55

Rick Research said:

I think if a photo shows up of him wearing his medal bar, it will then be seen to have been copied/listed as a 2nd Class by mistake for a 3rd Class.

I think so too. Here is a photo, but you can't see anything.

Hello Brian,

I suppose you know this page?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surviving_Vet...First_World_War

Chris

OberStleutnant could have received 2nd class. With foreigners the criteria has neither been that strict.

Jani

Do you mean Oberstleutnant (Lt. Col.) or Oberleutnant (1st Lt.)?

Thanks

Chris

I have a question concerning the Cross of Liberty 2nd class X. Earlier in this thread I assumed that this was given only to Hptm/KapLts and up. Now I find that the bio of later Gen d. Pztr Hans-Karl Freiherr von Esebeck states that he was awarded the Cross of Liberty 2nd class X on 7.05.1918 while still being an Oberleutnant in the 3rd Guards-Cavalry-Brigade. Could Oberlts also receive the 2nd class?

Great research! That gives an idea of continuity: Service in four different armies.

I also thought of the NVA guys. There is a recent book on Vincenz M?ller, he became somewhat famous.

Here is more on the rather interesting Paul Reinhold Herrmann.

This is what makes him interesting: he has what may be a unique distinction. He appears to be the only military officer (maybe the only person, period) with both the West German Gro?es Bundesverdienstkreuz and the Blood Order of the NSDAP. Somehow I don't think the latter made it onto his post-1957 ribbon bar.

Herrmann is really a unique case. Maybe he wore the Blood Order - as usual - on his right pocket flap!

Probably SA. Can't find anything in the SS.

One more:

Curt Siewert (1899-1983): Served as Lt in GrenR 5. Both EKs 1914. GenLt 1944. Retired as Bundeswehr GenMaj.

For these I cannot confirm WW1 service at the moment, but they should have, given their age:

Joseph von Radowitz (1899-1956): GenLt. Died as Bundeswehr GenMaj.

Wolf-Dietrich Freiherr von Schleinitz (1899-1963): GenMaj 1944. Retired as Bundeswehr BrigGen.

Friedrich Stammbach (1897-1970): GenMaj 1944. Retired as Bundeswehr GenMaj.

Gottfried Weber (1899-1958): GenLt 1944. Died as Bundeswehr GenMaj.

Great work Dave!

This is getting really interesting. I am surprised there are so many; they just keep turning up:

Paul Reinhold Herrmann (1898-1980): Served as Lt in IR 32. Both EKs and Saxe-Meiningen. GenMaj 1944. Retired as a Bundeswehr GenMaj in 1961.

Hans-Joachim von Horn (1896-1994): Served as Lt in the 1st Leib-Husaren. 1943 GenLt. Retired as a Bundeswehr GenLt in 1961.

Kurt Freiherr von Liebenstein (1899-1975): Served as Lt in the 26th Dragoner. EK 2 1914. GenMaj 1943. Retired as a Bundeswehr GenMaj in 1960.

maybe yes, maybe no.....?!

Am I right that both red/white ribbons are Hessen? Kriegsehrenzeichen and long service/Landwehr? and the greyblue one is Bulgaria, right? I think for the red one there are 8 million possibilities.....

I would think that one of the red/white ones is the Turkish War Medal Star. Grey with stripes is without doubt the Bulgarian bravery order/medal. Red one - with this combination - suggest a St. Alexander...

MIGHT this be the lower one of two rows???

I think it is the Knights Cross of the War Service Cross.

Thanks Daniel, but it is not. I have seen the full picture.

Is it possible that this is a "Militärverwaltungschef"?

Pic below shows one.

I was actually right?!?

I think so. That seems to be a continously serving Navy officer. Those eagles are both gold, right?

I would think that this guy should eventually be ID'able. Must be a Kapt zS or Admiral.

And General Josef Kammhuber, first Inspector of the Bundesluftwaffe. Both EKs 1914 and BMV4X, plus KC.

More: General Hans Röttiger, first Inspector of the postwar Heer. With both EKs 1914 and Hamburg.

Another one, though not strictly an Imperial officer: General Friedrich Foertsch, the 2nd Inspector General of the Bundeswehr, served as Fahnenjunker for some months in 1918 already. Photo has the EK2 1914 with Spange, KC and DKiG.

I have found another one, the first postwar Inspector of the Navy, Vizeadmiral Friedrich Oskar Ruge. Here with 1914 EKs and KC.

This is Rogge's funeral pillow:

Konteradmiral Rogge with EK2 1914, KC w/ Oakleaves and "Großes BVK" (very blurry photo).

General Speidel with Württemberg GMVM, KC and DKiG.

For a start, here is a blurry photo of General Heusinger with his EK2 1914 and Reuss decorations in 1957 style.

The recent question about M1957 ribbon bars with Imperial decorations brings me to this: How many Imperial officers had continous service up to postwar Bundeswehr? I know about three: Adolf Heusinger, Hans Speidel and Bernhard Rogge. All three served in four different German armies/navies. Were there more? Has anyone got photos with their ribbon bars?

I think we should open a new thread "What constitutes a 1957 fake?".

The above bar is very interesting. Normally, 1957 bars have the wider 25mm ribbons, but the early models used old ribbons. This one would be perfectly in line with 1957 regulations IF there were the correct devices on the first three ribbons:

#1: Federal merit cross 1ST CLASS device. Without device, this is the 2nd class, and should go behind EK1 and KVK1.

#2: KVK 1ST CLASS device. With only swords, again 2nd class, and much more behind. The second KVK ribbon is in the correct place.

#3: EK 2ND CLASS with Spange. This is the EK1 w/ Spange device, and would go before all 2nd class decorations.

Everything else is ok: Wound badge, then Hindenburg, KVK2, East Medal, then foreign.

Make-do ribbon for the Japanese Order of the Sacred Treasure?

German universities could (and still do) grant honorary citizenships (Ehrenb?rgerw?rden) to people from outside the university. There cannot have been many honorary citizens of the University of Bonn during 1933-45. I would guess maybe 10-15 at maximum.

Situation cleared!

I have been able to locate the full picture (couldn't scan it however). It is a Croatian Zvonimir neck order, and this actually IS Bönning. I still don't understand, however, why I cannot find him in the usual sources as an administrative general.

He is supposed to have been in Serbia on some administrative position in general's rank.