webr55

Hit! Hit! Hit!

Otto von Strahl, born Berlin 24.10.1847, long years Adjutant, Royal Hofmeister, Kammerherr and Hofmarschall of HRH the Landgraf von Hessen und bei Rhein, Major z.D., alive 1908 in Philippsruhe- Kesselstadt in Hessen- Nassau. I checked whole 1880, no other one comes close to him: KO4, EK2, DD3, HP3aX, SLVM, RA3, EH3bX, WF3a, he received the missing AB3a, MK3 and RW4 until 1888 ? so a 100% match to this bar!!! He added later a AB2b, BM2, BZ2a, HP2a, OV2a, RAO3Kr, KO2, Cent, EH2bX, WF2b, DD2a, RSt1

Any questions?!?!?

Daniel

Great work!!

BTW, died 1921.

Odd that THAT issue decided the most impoirtant thing (yawn) was the day they first joined the army (or navy).

Interesting you mention that, because it applies only to those with seniority dates before 1921. There are several notes in the book saying that from 1921 on, promotion dates to current rank are given.

Also, I'm still confused by the Schupo-Gendarmerie distinction. What exactly is the difference?

I understand there were other former Imperial officers that went into the Gendarmerie rather than into Schupo? Or would my list give all (senior?) Prussian police officers?

List of police commanders, additions by the General himself.

A RK winner:

SS General Pfeffer-Wildenbruch:

his own entry #2 in the Königsberg police:

his own entry:

Title page with his name:

I recently acquired this:

Dienstaltersliste der Polizeioffiziere der Schutzpolizei in Preussen 1933

An interesting piece, lists all Prussian police officers with first name, birth date, place and seniority. I'm not sure whether this is rare, but it might serve some research purpose. Wish it had a list of decorations, but it's got at least an index.

Also, it is the personal copy of later GenLt Otto Schilling. He made a lot of annotations about further careers, ranks and death dates (till postwar time). I will post some pics later.

Rick Research said:

Yes BUT!!!!! is 4th ribbon Red Eagle Order (orange) or Hamburg Hanseatic (red)? I can't tell from the scans!

And the winner is ....

Hamburg!

Ok, here are my results so far:

I am working under the assumption that #5 is Hamburg, not the RAO4 (the original Weitze scan showed that).

There are quite a lot of officers with only an Austrian Franz-Joseph Knight in the 1914 RL. However, I could not find A SINGLE one among them who survived the war, got the Zähringen 2nd class with oakleaves, had no XXV AND the SA3aX.

However, the Zähringen roll is quite incomplete, as it ends in mid-1918. Therefore, I have a VAGUE suspect, no proof of Zähringen here:

Oberlt v. Hohberg und Buchwald from the Leib-Garde-Husaren, Rittmeister 28.11.1914 and aD at that rank. Had only the ÖFJ4 prewar and got the SA3aX. Lt. 18.10.03.

There is another even vaguer suspect, a Lt. dR Kaiser from IR111. Common name. But could he have made Hauptmann till 1918?

And still very vague, a Lt. Otto Schmidt from IR19, Hptm aD 1919. MIGHT have got a SA3aX.

Anyway, here is another, that just came in:

Ah Ralph, you beat me to that!

ID is difficult. I have already done some work on that one, interested?

Rick's memory serves him right: He has researched Emmery von Lorck before. There are pics of Emmery and his father in this thread:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9683

I have copied what Rick found out 4 years ago:

Prussian Garde-Husaren Regiment Lieutenant Karl Lorck was Emmery's and Charly's father, ennobled as "von Lorck" in 1861. The family crest is described as 3 "natural" Lorcks-- "Norwegian waterfowl."

Charly von Lorck was born in Berlin 19 March 1862. I'll get earlier careers on both ODDLY named brothers, but in 1914 he was charakterisiert Oberstleutnant zur Disposition (1.10.13) on staff of Landwehr Bezirk Hagen, holder of the Prussian Red Eagle Order 4th Class, XXV Years Long Service Cross, and 1897 Centenary Medal. (He was a Major in Inf Rgt 56 in 1908). He was killed in action 7 December 1914 on the regimental staff of Reserve Inf Rgt 220 at Rzegocina near Cracow, leaving widow Margarete von Puttkamer and daughters Glenny and Ingeborg.

Emmery von Lorck was born 30 September 1866 in Berlin. In 1914 he was a charakterisiert Major zD (1.10.12) in charge of Reporting Office Schleiz under Landwehrbezirk Kommando Gera, holding Prussian Red Eagle Order 4th Class, XXV Years Service Cross, 1897 Centenary Medal, Reuss (Younger Line) Honor Cross 3rd Class with Crown, and Saxe-Ernestine House Order-Knight 1st Class.

He went into the field as a battalion commander in Res Inf Rgt 332, then was on the Military Hospital Commission in Fritzlar, and finally on the Staff of landwehrbezirks Kommando Gera, where he died 15 December 1916 of exertions related to war service. He left his widow Helene von Rumohr, eldest son Willibald (born 25.6.1891 Schleswig, law student, died of illness in Marburg an der Lahn 19.4.1918 having served as a War Volunteer in J?ger Baon 4), 2nd son Karl, Leutnant dR survived war, and two daughters--

NORA, and Gerda.

Sources:

Rank Lists, German Orders Almanac, 1921 "Helden-Gedenkmappe."

Both were originally commissioned in Schleswig Inf Rgt 84: in 1890 Charly was detached as an instructor at the Haupt-Kadetten-Anstalt, Berlin-Lichterfelde.

Charly was Hauptmann 1.9.1896 U2u, from at least 1902 to 1908 as chief of 7th Company/ Inf Rgt 56. He had only the 1897 Medal in 1902.

Emmery was Hauptmann 14.9.00 Ff, in 1902 chief of 6th Co./Inf Rgt 84, but by 1907 zD at Schleiz/Gera (no awards but the 1897 Medal then-- he did FANTASTIC for a "part timer"!!!) where he still was in 1914.

I saw this one too before it suddenly disappeared!

But I also have my doubts:

- Why the second RAO ribbon? A General Honor Decoration? But in this place, behind the Silesian Eagle?

- Schaumburg-Lippe with swords? Sachsen-Meiningen with swords?

- #6 seems to be the 1870, as there are no swords. But this guy was still going strong in WW1, yet not a very high ranking officer (RAO4). With the Gen. Honor Decor. even an up-through-the ranks former NCO, born ca. 1850. Possible????

Doubts remain.

Yes, those are the nice Wolf-Brown plastic ribbons that came out right at the end of the War and were worn through the 1950s.

Dave

Thanks! BTW, is it possible that this is his entire postwar ribbon bar? And that mine at the top of this thread is all he wore before getting the BSM?

Chris

Ahhh, I finally found it: These were other parts of Whisner's ribbon bar that was sold on ebay.

I assume these are post-war bars, with the WWII victory medal?

Only a small thing:

Ok, I wouldn't call this a 100% positive ID. I know that the HHOX roll is incomplete and so on. So let's say it is an educated guess, based on the information available:

There are about 22 possibilites with only a JK5 in the RL1914. All of them can be ruled out (KIA, RH service, PROBABLY no HHOX, ...) but two:

Hauptmann Firnhaber, 1.10.1913 P16p, IR6, HHOX 22.12.1917, 1919 Maj aD

Hauptmann Michaelis, 1.10.1912 X22x, IR98, HHOX 18.9.1917, 1919 Maj aD

Now what is interesting: There is a Hptm Fritz Michaelis who got the SA3aX on 15.11.1917. This should be him - and would rule him out...

which leaves Firnhaber as my favourite suspect!

Have you noticed the breast decoration of the officer next to Sch?rner? Is it the very rare Tamara order given to German soldiers who served in the Caucasus area (Georgia)?

Claudio

If it is (and I have no idea what else it could be), then THIS would make the photo REALLY rare!

Just for my education, 1 (stupid ?) question : What lead you to think it is "saxon" ?

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers.

Ch.

The superfluous EK mini can be found mainly on Saxon ribbon bars, though some examples from Turkey exist also.

Thanks a lot! So he really witnessed Pearl Harbor.

What does it mean that he reverted to Colonel? Rick, you know what I mean, was his Brig.Gen. something like the German "Charakter als" rank?

Gentlemen,

here's part of a ribbon bar that belonged to Brig. General Emons Whisner (1895-1984). Several of his pieces were sold on ebay some time ago. I tried to grab more, but this was all I got.

Now as this is absolutely outside my normal area of collecting, I have a few questions:

1) Is it correct that the ribbons are WW1 victory, Army of Occupation (of what?), American Defense, Pacific Campaign?

2) Does anyone have more information on him? I only know that he commanded a depot in the Pacific area in 1944.

3) Maybe a photo? Maybe with the rest of his bar?

Thanks

Chris

I always thought only the crews of the two german ships got the Messina medal.... are there other german soldiers / units that got that medal too??? Any ground troops helped in that catastrophe?

... no ... and name is known!

Here's the Bavarian bronze crown:

Was there a specially designed crown and swords for the beamten band?

Not that I know.

The crowns on my Hohenzollern/Brabant bar are gold, I think.